Carrera book comments and questions

[Type550]

I have explained that the races in Europe you refer to are 550-07 without its buckle byt retaining its fixed rear. It was not "reconfigured" as 550-05 but was 550-07 throughout and became Bousquet's car.

We have already established that the Bousquet car was a Wendler built car and not 550-07 rebodied onto the frame of 550-0043. Only the frame plate was welded over the top.

How can you explain the photo of the fixed back car taken at the latest March 1954 in France when 550-07 has the lift back at the same time? It would take weeks, if not months to rebody it.

[Rickie]

Did you ever hear of the expression, "beating a dead horse?" spoken as a person who will beat a dead horse when it comes to the RSK!

[Carrera GT]

As said before, the correspondence between Stuck and Porsche does not specify a car, so there is no conclusive evidence that it is 550-05. There is no race history or any photos of 550-05 in South America during this period and no knowledge of where the car was or who had possession of it.

If Porsche was still doing testing and this article photo is 550-07, it would have Porsche licence plates on it, not plates from Veuillet's dealership and there is no record of Veuillet doing any road tests for Porsche.

The car in the article is the same car as Auguste Veuillet raced on the 25 April 1954 at Montlhery Coupe du Printemps. If it is not 550-05, which car is it as you say 550-07 was still in Germany? The photo could not have been taken in April or later as it was an April issue of the magazine.



And also the other article does say it was the Paris Show car

Documentation and open debate are quality virtues that go beyond ourselves and this forum. It is what makes this country - the USA - always the greatest and most outstanding in the world. It allows the freedom on this forum site - not quite the same if based in Europe, the Middle East, or Mexico. Albeit, on the internet, you could have a forum even if based in places like India, Japan, or even Australia.

On the -05 / -07 subject I have always found this attached photo of Hans Stuck quite interesting. When was this taken - and also what chassis number was it? Thank you to all.

Michael Doyle

[Steve Heinrichs]

I'll ask Vietta to post the othe 550-05 photos of Stuck in S.A. and of Fasicnello with the car tomorrow.

The magazine article refering to the previous year Paris show refers to the Type car--550, not a specific car...although the car at Paris was 550-05.

The problem for Andrew to resolve if 550-05 "went back" say in February or March is:

Which car, then, was in S.A. through the summer that fits with the Stuck correspondence???

Answer: Only 550-05 works. There is no alternative.
Some car was there.

550-05 did not return to Europe. Start Nr. 100 is 550-07 simply without the buckle.

Steve Heinrcihs

[Type550]

Michael,

There is no doubt 550-05 went to South America - everyone is in agreeance with that and the photo is of Hans Stuck in 550-05 at the Sao Paulo GP on the 10th January 1954. There is no race history after that date in South America until 11 December 1955 - where was the car during that period??

Andrew (and yes, in Australia, we can say what we like!)

[Carrera GT]

Michael,

There is no doubt 550-05 went to South America - everyone is in agreeance with that and the photo is of Hans Stuck in 550-05 at the Sao Paulo GP on the 10th January 1954. There is no race history after that date in South America until 11 December 1955 - where was the car during that period??

Andrew (and yes, in Australia, we can say what we like!)

"As said before, the correspondence between Stuck and Porsche does not specify a car, so there is no conclusive evidence that it is 550-05. There is no race history or any photos of 550-05 in South America during this period and no knowledge of where the car was or who had possession of it."

Andrew - Cheers to freedom Australia!

It is sometimes hard to follow your statements...as your quote above
seems to say there are no photos - and no knowledge of who and where. But we/you do know - it is Hans Stuck in Brazil. And you do say-agree it is the 05 car?

Michael Doyle

[Type550]

The car is not 550-07 just without the buckel - it is a fixed rear - the same as when it appeared at the Sable-Solesmes Rallye

[Type550]

Michael,

There is no doubt 550-05 went to South America - everyone is in agreeance with that and the photo is of Hans Stuck in 550-05 at the Sao Paulo GP on the 10th January 1954. There is no race history after that date in South America until 11 December 1955 - where was the car during that period??

Andrew (and yes, in Australia, we can say what we like!)

"As said before, the correspondence between Stuck and Porsche does not specify a car, so there is no conclusive evidence that it is 550-05. There is no race history or any photos of 550-05 in South America during this period and no knowledge of where the car was or who had possession of it."

Andrew - Cheers to freedom Australia!

It is sometimes hard to follow your statements...as your quote above
seems to say there are no photos - and no knowledge of who and where. But we/you do know - it is Hans Stuck in Brazil. And you do say-agree it is the 05 car?

Michael Doyle

Sorry Michael - it must be the Australian accent

My series of events all along for 550-05 have been:
550-05 was the Paris show car - October 1953
It went to South America to race (2 races) -3rd/10th January 1954
It returned to France and raced in 6 races (5 in France/1 in Morocco) - 25th April 1955 to 25 Feb 1955
It returned to South America and raced in 8 races from 11th December 1955 to 8th December 1957.
There is no history of the car after that period

550-07 was a test car - it did not race in any races.

[Steve Heinrichs]

Well----

Now there are three major problems to deal with for those who believe that 05 went back to Europe:

1) Given tha Andrew agrees that 05 was, if fact, in Rio and Sao Paulo in January 1954, how is 05 accounted for since we know it was "sold" to Fascinlleo (I'll aske Vietta to post the photo of him with the car).

2) Assuming the car went back in, say, February 1954...........why was Stuck corresponding re the lack of payment in the succeeding months? He was specifically refering to the car he drove in January.

3)The correspondence continued for some time. What car was he talking about if not 05???

There was a 550 prototype that was there through the summer. Recall thatwe have earlier pointed out that there was even discussion re parts.


Seriously and respectfully----what other prototype could it have been?? Please tell me which car or what car possibilities could it have been? We agree 05 was there in January. What car could Stuck have been talking about? How does the Fascinello photo get explained? Why would Stuck write back and forth regarding another car??

Please answer re an alternative car.


Steve Heinrichs

Steve Heinrichs

[alan hall]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me that the correspondence seems to center on a deadbeat buyer in South America but does not indicate that said buyer kept the car in South America the whole time. I agree with Andrew that it would be strange for someone to have a "latest and greatest" racecar and not use it, but shipping it to Europe to race and then returning it home (South America)certainly seems very possible.

[Steve Heinrichs]

Hi Alan,

Your theory is reasonable and it is something we have thought about. Unfortunately, there are several problems with it--at the very least--races before the end of the summer of 1954.

The 550 Prototype remained until then at least. So, there is no way that it could have been at the races Andrew notes in March, etc. of 1954.

Also, the theory requires a car in S.A. until then and, I believe, no alternative car in S.A. What is always essential is triangulation that accounts for the other cars.

Steve Heinrichs

---I think the photo of Fascinello with the car will be informative.

[alan hall]

Hi Steve,
I decided to go back and look at that correspondence again. It indicates that parts for a modification to the car (sounds like a motor re-build) were received at the VW distributor just before March 5, 1954 and were being installed. So it sounds like the car was definitely in South America at that time. On April 12, 1954 the factory writes that the buyer has had the vehicle for a few months to which Stuck replies on April 16, 1954 that the vehicle is with the VW representative. At this point Stuck is in Austria and is apparently basing his statement on some type of communication with the VW representative. None of the other correspondence indicates where the vehicle is physically. I guess my question is could Stuck have had the vehicle sent to Europe on or about April 16, 1954 to do the European races in question. It would seem that he might have had concerns about the car losing value as this matter dragged on and wanted to get the car racing again. The car would have been returned to South America when the financial stuff began to be sorted out in early 1955 or so.

Alan

[vhelmle]

Hello Everyone,

Steve Heinrichs has asked me to post the photo that we believe is Fasanello in Brazil seated in 550-05.




Vietta

[356]

That car looks to have a glove compartment. Was it 05 noted as being the only car fitted with one?

[vhelmle]

Hello Everyone,

Steve Heinrichs has asked me to respond to Mr. Hall's excellent notes about the presence or lack of presence of 550-05 in Brazil. We agree, the correspondence between Porsche, Stuck and the VW dealer do not name the specific chassis nr. We think the last letter is definitely referencing a telegram about a "Spyder" as being in storage at Tressecima VW in Brazil as late as June 1954 and that it will remain in storage until the import paperwork is completed.






Vietta