Spyder 550 550A

[Steve Heinrichs]

Yes, well, this is a very complicated problem. MANY rebodies.

And 0086 particularly tough since there were two 0086 chassis.

Steve Heinrichs

[JTR70]

Thanks for sharing this Andrew. What an amazing no expense spared wooden buck; Its a work of art all by itself! A very interesting question you pose and I think very subjective to a point. Is a Spyder with a reproduction body no matter how accurate an original car? I would have to say technically no. Yes the frame is real but is this the body that rolled out of the Wendler factory back in the day? If the answer is no then its not the real McCoy no matter how well executed it is. I take the example of a torn paper dollar; to be considered legitimate so a bank will give you credit more than half of it must still be there. Likewise for a car to still "originally" exist more than half (or at least half) of it must also be there. In my mind anyway. Steve how is that there's two 0086's?
Justin

[Type550]

if that is the case, there would be less than a handful of spyders today!

[JTR70]

I hear you it is tough call since most of these cars were all "used up" back in their race days. If the body is new and all or most of its original components are there (motor, trans etc.)then sure okay its the Spyder. However if its a known burnout like this chassis in which everything original to it was destroyed then its only a skeleton. I'm sure this frame went through the fire as well and it too is technically junk since it is now weak and annealed with very little of its tensile strength remaining. Its a pattern for a new frame or a wall hanger at this point. So in reality 0086 needs a new frame with structural integrity. So now we are down to the VIN plate. Will you consider this to be a real Spyder once its fabricated Andrew?

[Type550]

It will be no different to me finding 550-02 down in South America in a barn with only a rusting rail left and a bit of screwed up paper with a title on it and sending it to Joe Cavaglieri who restored 550-01, 550-03 and 550-04, with a few photos of what it looked like in the 1953 Carrera Panamericana, pay him $2M to fabricate a perfect car where no one could tell the difference and park it next to Jerry's #03 at the next Pebble Beach concourse...

Of course it will be real!

[JTR70]

hmmmm...
While those cars are all exceptional recreations they still are recreations. Don't get me wrong I would give my left arm for one of those cars but this is strictly semantics.

Following the same logic this dead speedster # will need a donor chassis (a factory original coupe chassis most likely) and every speedster unique substructure and body panel fabricated by a guy like Steve Hogue. Once its rebuilt should it be considered an original speedster?

[Type550]

Of course it can be saved - bit of spit and polish, and give it time the value will rise towards the spyders. Would you rather spend the money on a concourse Speedster or one like that, if you had the money? No one would ever question the originality of it

[JTR70]

Realistically with the example speedster above and the Spyder project on the previous page it is only the ID # that can be "saved" and not the car itself so once all the dust settles there will only be a representation of the car but not the actual car. I take my coupe for example. If the body were to be destroyed in a fire or hit beyond repair the chassis # is of course too valuable to let go. so I or the next owner would have to come up with a cherry T1 coupe "donor" car to park the original VIN# in. An unlawful maneuver of course but for arguments sake. Now this repair would be miles ahead in authenticity because the donor was built by Reutter and was a real Porsche. Once the transplant was complete I'd ask myself: Is this chassis # 58367 that left the factory in 1956? Is this the car my father bought in '68?
Is this the car that I toiled on for over 25 years? The answer of course would be no. The original car no longer exists and what I have in front of me now is a representation, a clone or an identity thief carrying its original ID #. I look at these resurrected Phoenix-spyders no differently. Yes, they are awesome, yes they are beautiful, yes they are masterfully crafted but we are defining what constitutes "original". imho.
Justin

[Steve Heinrichs]

I concur with Andrew's analysis of rebodies like 01 and others, although I think the 0086 story is a little different.

We have tried to note "rebodied" in the book where we believe that to be the case.

Steve Heinrichs

[Type550]

I think there are two trains of thought Justin. With your 356, it has a history with you and your family, and I would feel the same if it was written off or similar and had to be reborn - it would not be the same car. The difference with the spyders is that it is rare for the same person to have owned it since it left the factory - in fact I don't think there is anyone who has. As these cars have been raced and damaged, it would be a shame to lose them to the wreckers.

Many of these cars have been rebodied and either still are or converted back. I believe Bill Brown was involved in 550-0083 which was converted back for a Devin body. Also 550-0079 which was converted to an RSK - this is about to go through a full restoration to bring it back to a spyder. Then you have Steve's 'mate' Warren rebuilding Annie Bousquet's 550-0043 which is near completion. What happens if James Dean's 550-0055 surfaced - should that be restored? The list goes on...

550-0079




Unfortunately with these cars they are an investment and growing in value daily. I personally would buy one with a great provenance but still in original condition like 550-0025 which is currently for sale - just need those lotto numbers to come up...

550-0025

[Type550]

Then the can of worms opens. One collector north of Europe is rumoured to have created clones of his own spyders so he can send them to events and not risk damage and all the logistics to safely get them there

Then a while back I had a email from a curator of a large european collection asking for details on a certain spyder they owned. She was quite shocked to find the original car was still owned elsewhere in Italy and they had paid an obscene amount for another clone - the board was not impressed...

[356]

[JTR70]

I understand what you're saying Andrew and agreed. Also correct that it would be crime not to rebuild these historical vehicles for future generations to enjoy. Speaking earlier of #02 Spyder is that a shot of it in the photo above? The headlights look very unique and proto-type-ish. Thanks again guys, interesting as always...
Justin

[Steve Heinrichs]

re 17640 and 550-0043.

Let me just respond to this one since so little time today---

There was no 0043. The 043 frame was used to repair 07 and the 0043 frame tag place on top of 0043. The car remained registered and designated as 07. When Annie B. was killed in the car it was 07 and soldto Blendl as 07 (despite its 043 frame).

When Blednl had it, it burned to the ground. The frame and a few steel items were left. (note--the 07 frame wasalready gone).

So----there currently is no 07 and 0043 was never built.

Steve Heinrichs

[Steve Heinrichs]

re 17646

Andrew---absolutely!

I do think the book's race list will help. Still, much work is generally required to determine the "real" cars. The motor data also helps.

It is a big problem as to All the purpose built race cars...and...soon...356s.

Steve Heinrichs