57 356 A mild resto

[foamcar]

I removed my tach cable last summer, as will be using Premat full flow oil filter with electric tach. I took detail shots of the cable routing from tunnel exit to tach, if anyone here needs when reinstalling cable.
Phil

[bbspdstr]

Thank you for the putting up with me...I'll have fun here as long as I'm able and allowed. Alas, there is another mis-speak in a prior post: "That's the arm that has the clutch cable attached via a clevis pin."
I'm mixing up Mark's A and John's T-6 in my head and the clevis pin is on the later arms and the VW-esque acorn nut is on an A clutch arm.
Confusion? Forgetfulness? Not me!
After literally hundreds and hundreds of cars worked on in 46 years, they all blend. I am (almost) happy when a car comes to me with an (admitted) name given by the owner.....it keeps it amusing when we can do a labor and parts summary at the end of each day on "Mitzy" or "Blue."

[merbesfield]

[quote="John Pierce" post=36734]Bruce,

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time from your business to help us newbies! Your advice and stories are very much appreciated.

JP[/quote

I second that. This is what makes this forum so great. Knowing there are others out there who will take the time to help us newbies. As John said, very much appreciated.

[John Pierce]

Bruce,

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time from your business to help us newbies! Your advice and stories are very much appreciated.

JP

[bbspdstr]

"Which leaves the tachy, which is plastic/foam etc. If it is in the upper left corner of the tunnel, I don't think my spot welding will be a problem."

I'm sorry I created some confusion here with the use of the left upper conduit. I think John showed that the fuel line/tube/pipe goes through that, not the tach cable. I do NOT think there is room for the tack cable, especially with the threaded retainer at both ends and the foam would be a hassle. Good that you reviewed the components and the thread.

As for melting anything in the tunnel, I'll hope any of the omni-present grease isn't near where you are going to weld. If there is still some grease in there and it's close enough to get hot, it melts and makes a mess. A mess makes for bad welds from there on, so I'd recommend to be sure it's clean (enough, near the welding areas).

Air to cool things as you go is good, but not directly on the hot weld, nor should water be placed directly on those welds, it makes them brittle. "Lacing" the welds starting in the middle, one side and then the other, taking your time and blowing air through the tunnel should keep whatever is in there from heat damage. Working from the middle to each end, side-to-side, also keeps the tunnel (and maybe the floor) from warping. Same with the welding of the outer floor perimeter.

The part you show certainly looks like a (clutch package) return spring for the trans' transverse arm which holds the clutch release bearing. That's the arm that has the clutch cable attached via a clevis pin.

As for the heater control pull wires, also see the Stoddard catalogue for the various part numbers for the various applications or maybe their online catalogue at www.stoddard.com would offer that.

The plain (not stranded) wire for pulling or releasing the "flapper boxes" has a crimped piece of ~1/8" rod that is grabbed (when adjusted optimally) by the barrel nuts that are captured in the pivot arms of the heater boxes and valves. The A shop manual has this covered well.

I like the A version with two wires, that makes the adjustments so much easier.

(I'll bet both Stoddard and Sierra Madre source their heater wires and many other parts from the same vendors...or each other.)

You can shop by price and availability.

Best of luck,
Bruce

[merbesfield]

Where/who should I buy heater wires from? Seems like a simple item but I got some for 911 once and was not impressed. Want the tensil or gauge to be same as Franz installed originally. Thanks.

Edit: I just looked on Stoddard and Sierra Madre and both of the cables they show for A's are not correct for me. Mine is plain wire and the ones they show have a threaded rod at the end. Is this an early A T1 vs T2 or something issue? My heater wire has crip at end near adjustment knob and a screw with barrel at the heater valve end. Unless I am looking at the wrong cables.

[merbesfield]

Is this a Porsche part? Laying in engine area and not sure.

[merbesfield]

[quote="bbspdstr" post=36724]

Mark, inexpert in some things as I may have recently exposed myself to be, I still know that welding can ruin things like plastics and such....wiring doesn't like heat, sheathing on cables such as for parking brakes and the tachometer...jus' sayin'....and don't bother to "ask me how I know." What isn't there can't melt and even a MIG plug weld generates 2000*......your call on yours, but I put cables in after welding in the floor, just to be safe.

Regards,
Bruce[/quote

Bruce, going from memeory, it was only this evening, but my battery cable, wiring harness, fuel and brake lines are staying in the car since they are already in there. So that leaves E brakes, heater, and tach.

Correct me if wrong here:
E brakes are cables only through tunnel, so shouldn't melt.
Heater cable or wires are wires so they shouldn't melt.
Which leaves the tachy, which is plastic/foam etc. If it is in the upper left corner of the tunnel, I don't think my spot welding will be a problem. Being the expert welder that I am , I am pretty fast at spot welds and bc I move around the floor I should be able to keep the heat down. Plus I can use air if it gets feeling too hot at each weld. You do this all the time, but looking at the connections for heater and E brakes and imaging me and my bad back trying to connect that shit through those tiny openings...I'm not liking that image.

Edit: upon review of my detail pics I can see that the Tachometer cable should be fairly easy to thread through the tunnel so I will take Bruce's expert advice, duh, and install after floor is in.

[bbspdstr]

John, I would like that rear bulkhead "checklist" jpg if you don't mind: bbspdstr@aol.com
TIA

Mark, inexpert in some things as I may have recently exposed myself to be, I still know that welding can ruin things like plastics and such....wiring doesn't like heat, sheathing on cables such as for parking brakes and the tachometer...jus' sayin'....and don't bother to "ask me how I know." What isn't there can't melt and even a MIG plug weld generates 2000*......your call on yours, but I put cables in after welding in the floor, just to be safe.

Speaking of gas line placement, I could just lapse into my story about welding on a later 911 tunnel back in the '80s, just SURE that the plastic gas lines were nowhere near where I was welding.....and found very scarily that I was VERY wrong and VERY lucky a water hose was nearby, a halon fire extinguisher and an asbestos blanket were inside that car and no serious damage was done. Oh, and I had better reflexes and ability to move faster back then, too. That's still clearly in my over-filled memory banks!
Regards,
Bruce

[merbesfield]

[quote="John Pierce" post=36722]Bruce,

I can't remember all these damn details either. I got it wrong the first go around also

I write everything down as a month from now it won't be fresh as it was while taking it apart. Then it's: "now how does this go back together?"


JP[/quote

I used to be very deligent about keeping my "build book" updated before during and after each shop visit. I will make a point to be better as it does help. Can't possibly remember everything. I went to the shop today bc curiosity was killing me. There is no conduit in my car. Only a hole. I went and looked at my cable and after studying it realized it looks to be in excellent condition so I will clean it and reuse it. After thinking about it, my car was only on the road from birth, 1957, to 1979, so only 22 years. It is definitely the original and the square ends are still perfectly square. I also think tho possible to install after floors are in, it will be much easier now. So all I need is heater cables and then I should be ready. I have new parking brake cables but my old ones look excellent as well so may stick w them vs new ones I have.

[John Pierce]

Bruce,

I can't remember all these damn details either. I got it wrong the first go around also

I write everything down as a month from now it won't be fresh as it was while taking it apart. Then it's: "now how does this go back together?"


JP

[bbspdstr]

Guys, John is the guy who is correct, I am wrong in my omission that the left side conduit carried the steel fuel tube. I made guesses and worst of all, assumptions. I need to stop posting if I am doing my reporting on what I remember or find now in 356s.

There is nothing I could or can find in "The Books." I looked at 356s that had been "worked on" prior to my involvement. I trusted they were "correct" and they weren't. I didn't dig deep enough before my prior post and I am sorry for bad reporting.

Feeling not so good about what I wrote and what John subsequently posted (with those arrows and labels I do not know how to create, either)...I braved the rain and cold here in PA and went to my out-buildings to examine guaranteed ORIGINAL examples of a T-6/C and a '59 A.

BOTH had gas lines going through a left conduit and wiring through the right conduit. I had to realize that I had not disassembled those that showed me nothing while in restoration and had not assembled one my-own-damned-self in too many years. I 'forgot.'

I looked at a bare T-6 shell back there in the dark, too, and it had the left conduit...but nothing going through it...as there is NOTHING going through it's (bottomless) tunnel. It's a valuable "part car."

On a positive note, this proves there are checks and balances on this forum and thank you, John. You were better at documenting perhaps due to having the wisdom to not trust a memory from months or years or decades ago as I did.....and I am better for that.

What was it one of the guys on the R forum used to say? "Back under my rock I go"?
Bruce

[John Pierce]

Mark,

Here's a picture that I took of my B T-6, which I believe is the same for a C T6. I labeled the holes and channels and what travels inside them. The fuel line travels in the driver's side channel and the battery cable and harness travel in the passenger's side channel. The tachometer cable doesn't travel in any conduit as I initially thought from memory

I can send you the original .jpg if you'd like a larger image.

HTH.

John





Below is a picture of the light colored fuel line entering the left channel:

[bbspdstr]

"I forget stuff, and I don't have a lot of knowledge to remember in the first place so that is dangerous."
Wait a minute! That's MY line! I never had to know about such trivia in my first 50 years...but welcome the challenge!

I am in the shop on a holiday, so what the hay, I looked. No 'tunnel-in-a-tunnel' other than the one on the upper right side in any 356 here but an A. (May be one in a T-5 Roadster, but that's all dressed up.) A T-2 Coupe has one, a T-1 Coupe and an early-early T-1 Cab does too. No "pre-A" cars to check. T-6 cars didn't have two, but all that have the one conduit on the right upper are carrying the wiring to the rear/engine (except the main hot for the starter) . For the tunnels that have the opposite (left) side too, I have no recall of anything going through there. Maybe it was originally intended for the main hot to the starter, don't know. Maybe right-hand-steering car wiring? Anyway, it was deemed unneeded with the T-6 cars for sure, and the C-2 here does not have the left upper tunnel conduit, yet is has many other anomalies in it's chassis build.

How about Alex at Restoration Design? I'd ask Brett Johnson, but he's busy with the early911sregistry.org's magazine, "esses." I'd go on the 356r site, but don't care enough to do do that. (Is that honest enough?) I know 'over there' there was a thread or more about "what goes through the tunnel and where...and where does what come out?" It was long enough ago that I think I may have participated....if I really HAD to know, I'd ask Brad Ripley in Reno.

That L/S conduit MAY have been something used for additional 4-cam wiring, but the later T-1 4-cam Speedster here with 2-upper tubes (L&R) came to me bare, so I do not know. It may have just been bracing, as it is under the seat rails. (A tube is the strongest structural shape, or so I heard in Industrial Design classes and why the 356 incorporated three of those from front to back halves of the car in a unibody design and Porsche got away with those being the same whether open or closed models....the coupe just stronger due to being 3 tubes covered by a a bridging that makes it a 'box' (over three tubes)).

As for the tach cable, the foam on the more original replacements, like the originals, I'll assume were to keep them quiet from both internal whirring noises and the possibility of whipping sheaths making a noise on the floor under them or against another something passing through. The abrasion-resistant sheathing also makes the better versions more expensive. It's where the cable is prone to rubbing against other elements, the forward section that goes up and to the instrument being just the black sheathing.

Edit: the lack of a conduit on the left upper longitudinal corner of the tunnel and that the right side conduit for the wiring means that the tach cable just is in clips/tabs or on the main tunnel floor, entering in the very front of the tunnel inside the cabin and exiting through a hole in the rear bulkhead large enough through which to pass the retaining collar on the cable end.

Happy New Year to all,
Bruce

[merbesfield]

Obviously I need to go look at my car and maybe this will be more clear for me. Reading back through my own posts helps. Thanks guys.