SC Coupe Restoration

[JTR70]

Karmann sure was ahead of the curve weren't they Bruce..

Great detail work on your floors Tom! Guys in the know will surely question as to whether they are original or not. There aren't too many who would put this kind of effort into the bottom of the car, so they must be original! Did I read that right, this car is at a body shop now? Looking forward to your progress! Justin

[bbspdstr]

Floor tunnel (boat) drains? Lowest part of 356 due to angle down from longitudinals. Window left down in a rain or plastic plugs in Karmann lower front and rear window openings leaking? Oil from nasty trans neck leak getting up there (seen all that happen) or just a nice idea from Karmann to help with 356 longevity.....diss'd by the accountants at Porsche.
Let's not forget the discs in the squab seat lowest parts of THAT pan.

Here's a picture of an original floor pan with some of the remaining longitudinal on one side, showing the 'special' details particular to Karmann bodies. I'm surprised that (Alex, if you are still lurking) a company making the floors doesn't offer a Karmann floor option for an added two or three hundred dollars (or whatever) for the additional details installed prior to shipping...same for the rear seat bottoms. (That's approximately what my shop will bill if it is a customer's request.)

[John Pierce]

Tom,

You definitely got a lot of work done over the Christmas break. The drainage holes in the most dependent portion of the rear tunnel are an interesting idea. I do have to wonder though, how much water collected there over time without the holes? I'm wracking my brain to understand how the water would get there in the first place. Condensation? I would think that the holes would allow more ingress of water than the amount that would egress.

Great work!

John

[tperazzo]

Thank you Justin and Bruce,
Great information on the lead. I did hammer some on the lead on the door skins to fix a little bit of distortion near the lower patch area. Just a little heat in that area caused the metal to expand and shrink a lot. Lead is great to work with, but super tedious! Definitely not my favorite thing to do.

Those Karmann details are kind of fun to play with and will hopefully cause those curious enough to do a double take. Are those original floors and longs or not?

Here's a picture of the original floor drain holes at the rear of the tunnel. Seems like a good idea, but certainly didn't save my floor from rusting.




This is the tool I made when punching holes in the longs.


Result:



Here's how the newly radiused rear impressions turned out.




Also check out that huge hot dog shape for the transverse tube.




That was a lot of fun to hammer down according to the original shape. I took this down to the beach and whacked it in the sand for a while with various dollies.

I also softened the front impressions some. The result is kind of a middle of the road effort compared to the original. My original front floors had very washed out impressions. If I can, I'll take some more pictures of my original floors too so Bruce and I can compare notes. I ended up with fairly strong impressions, that kind of match the rear......At least I made an effort.

I wish I had more pictures, but I don't. Here's a shot after the floors were installed.



If anyone wants pictures, I can shoot a few more while visiting my car at the shop periodically.

Those front triangle impressions were completely re shaped to match the angle of the inner longitudinal and to avoid intereference.

I did get lucky on the pedal mounting bracket. It lined up right on the embossed circle. Thank you Jack for recommending trial fitting the toe boards! I don't have my original floor matts or a repro yet though, so I will have to pray it fits.

Thanks again for following along. Sorry about the lack of pictures. I was pushing hard to complete this thing over the xmas break.
Tom

[JTR70]

Nice work on that hammer form Tom, like to see how it worked for you!

Bruce, thanks for sharing that! Honestly the thought of bumping the metal more after applying the lead never occurred to me but it makes perfect sense. I think the lead too would deaden the hammer taps making the steel a bit more agreeable to moving in the right directing. I will keep that in mind on the next one. Thanks again! Justin

[bbspdstr]

Tom, good work and a good eye for the details. You also display a knack for using common sense, a necessary ingredient so often missing in such projects, hobbyist or pro.

A bit on lead work. The good ol' boys who showed me how to use lead made sure I knew that it was better than plastic (what they derisively called "straightener in a can") because when filed and a low spot was seen, the steel could be bumped up and conversely, when a high spot would appear, it could be bumped down......in essence, the lead would not crack or disassociate itself from the steel and allow the thinnest amount to remain during the filing process.

This, of course, is voided at steps and edges such as jambs and door edges...any edges or double layers, but in those areas, it is still very stable and tenacious.

I still have the molds and melting cups they had or made so that new bars can be made with the filings. The best lead is that which is melted off a 356 during repair or restoration, so there is really very little wasted material and I personally think reusing the original lead on a 356 is an appropriate effort.

Is plastic used in today's restorations? Sure, but only OK if just enough to take care of small areas with better products than were available 50 years ago. Metal finishing and lead is still the best method, but few shops have the experience or the clientele that wants to afford the added time that takes.

On floor stampings: that has been batted around for many decades and there is still no exact replication I have found or of which I have heard. For a very long time, the "Zim's floors" were the best, with restoration design being a close second. The proprietary Stoddard floors are from steel dies but primarily and most noticeably compromised by the exaggerated transverse 'hump.' I have had to cut short the rubber mats to allow seat adjustment when I tried to use those when first out, as a mat over that hump won't allow clearance for the seat pan. (I was bailed out by shim strips under the seat rails, but that may be unacceptable for a tall driver/passenger) On the underside, anyone can look and immediately note the exaggerated transverse hump and after that, not bother to notice any other discrepancies of details. "Ah-h-h, it's a repro..."

As for the Karmann details, I made a die that is very close to the original metric hole but actually makes the plugs fit a common US hole saw or 'knock-out' punch size. The circumferential depression is easy. When someone sees those on a Karmann chassis, the visual effect of that detail is huge and that the floor stamping is a flawed repro is lessened. It's worth the extra time and effort if the chassis number begins with a '2.'

(Same with the D'Iteren Roadsters....)

I can post pictures of those items and sections of original Karmann floors when I can get more time....gotta get back to work,
-Bruce

[tperazzo]

Thanks Trevor, I wish I could but my schedule isn't Porsche friendly tomorrow. I will make time soon.

So the last major update to my car was the floors. I've been hoarding these for several years and I think they are from Stoddards. They certainly aren't the best.

I don't have a lot of pictures, so I'll try to describe the improvements I made.

Shortcomings:
Rear bulkhead lip too short
Rear depressions radii too sharp
Transverse tube too round. Not elliptical like the original.
Missing Karmann drain holes at rear and floor plugs
Front triangle depression interfered with longitudinal flange. (3/4" all around)
Front bulkhead shape was barely formed at all with no crispness
The opposite was true with front depressions were too crisp.

I know it sounds like I'm complaining , but I'm not. I'm just comparing to my original floors and striving to make the new floors look as original as possible.

Rear indent radius too small


Handmade form tool to correct said radius


Gotta update the rest in a part 2.
Please hang with me!
Tom

[Trevor]

2015 - The year of paint, for you and I bet for Justin as well. If you're free next Friday, come on down to Jack's and let's talk painters and anything else.

[tperazzo]

Thanks guys, there's still tons to do before paint like fitting all the parts to the car and I still need to fix the bumpers.

Here's a quick repair on the rear fender arch as I remember one of your cars had the same issue as mine. Basically the metal was sanded down too thin.

Here's the crack.




Repair piece formed with pliers and a hammer. I just got a bead roller, but it's not fully set up yet so I did this quick and dirty.



Here's what I cut out and cleaned. Yes it was rusty inside! Car was flipped upside down to make the welding easy.

Partially welded in.



I don't have a picture of the finished repair, but you get the idea. If I did it again I would have made the patch slightly bigger because I ended up with a slight dish where I couldn't planish behind the wire rolled seam.

Thanks again to everyone for all the encouragement to keep me going.

[roy mawbey]

Well done Tom, some nice work indeed. Once I got used to leading I was like you applied over the amount and it just took a while longer to get extra off. With that door gap to front fender I am surprised like you it opened without touching. Mine is much wider there and I really would like it to have been smaller like yours!

Trouble is should have made decision 25 years ago when door gaps did not seem to be so important. Also, like my gas welding skill, leading would mean starting all over again to stop it going on the floor!

As Justin says you must have saved yourself thousands doing all that work yourself. I bet you will have a grin all over your face when it comes back. Money well, its only money and sometimes it can buy a little happiness and get the car nearer to being on the road.

Roy

[foamcar]

Congratulations Tom. I dream about that day. Lots of sweat in that 356. Keep us posted on your last few weeks and the upcoming paint story.

Phil

[JTR70]

UH-OH!!?!! You're now ready to move onto the paint and body work stage Tom?? I better get my coupe into final paint this spring before I really get embarrassed for myself here shortly!

Seriously, that is fantastic news! Congratulations on officially getting past the steel work stage. It looks really nice sitting on that trailer. You're right, you could continue to tinker and chase it for a lifetime but you just have to draw the line somewhere and say that "its close enough, time to move on". You said "potential bodyman", so you're still shopping; Who are you considering to do the work?
Expensive yes, but you have saved yourself a boat-load already so you're still way ahead of the game. I sort of envy your position though, how nice would it be to have someone else doing all the donkey-work while I wait for my beautifully painted shell to arrive back at my door. Very cool! Congrats again on getting to the next phase!
Justin

[tperazzo]

I hunkered down and took this rust bucket as far as I could. Well I could have tinkered with it for longer, but I'm so far behind schedule and exhausted I took it to my potential painter/body man.

The last few weeks were a flurry of activity with limited pictures, but I'll add here and there.




Sigh of relief, but it's about to get expensive! I'm actually ok with it knowing how much work it is.

[foamcar]

Tom
Just catching up after a 10 day absence. Nice idea to lift that rear fender area. Thanks for posting all of this, as I still have to do a lot of that.

Phil

[JTR70]

Looking good Tom! You have more self control than I did; once it was applied I immediately had to file it down to see what was going on. Gaps and lines are shaping up nicely!