SC Coupe Restoration

[bbspdstr]

"For 20 years it was fine, then area's of micro blistering started and this annoy's me."

Roy, that would happen for me/to me over the years where it was small blisters just over where the lead was. We traced it back to the lead itself, either blasted or just sanded....the surface allowed small contaminants to come out and make micro eruptions under the paint.

Paint, while thought to be waterproof, can allow moisture through microscopic pores and activate contaminants. That all stopped when I learned to take a soft flame and reheat the finished lead prior to filing and allow those slightly sub-surface ingredients to "boil out."

Could be oil or wax, could be tinning acids, could be whatever is in the recycled lead filler itself...or all of the above. All of that is SUPPOSE to boil out when the material is melted and poured into a bar mold. I guess not ALL that left in the process.

Those defects would appear in blasted original lead which opened up the surface or the new lead I would apply, file and sand. It stopped after I began "cooking" that lead filler, another reason most well known restorers and hobbyists don't use much lead anymore; another step that can be a problem if not done just right. I still use it, but primarily on either areas where strength is required (door jambs) or a customer insists and is willing to pay for the extra time it takes.

Most other areas are fine with a catalyzed ground aluminum-filled resin that works like lead, looks like lead when finished and is waterproof. FYI, Brand names are different but the basic product in the can is the same, but that product has a shelf-life, so buy it from a reputable vendor that has turn-over.

Meanwhile, I like lead when it's requested. It takes a while to get back the rhythm, the correct heat and motion, the paddling of the mix of tin and lead as it is just right in it's "plastic" state, etc. The good old boys called that "Packin' solder."

When original lead is melted off an area that needs rust repair, it is saved. So are the filings of new work. They are re-melteed into more bars to use, very efficient recycling.

I was interrupted in my typing of this with a call from my painter who had just found a '57 Chevy Bel-Aire convertible that was parked in a garage of an old guy not far away. Family is selling the property and need it moved...gee, can I 'help'. My dad had one of those and it brings back fond memories...like being with him when he bought it at a dealership...for $2,000 cash. Like getting to drive it when I got a license at 16. Like how much of a "chick magnet" it was...all those things that are now ... just memories.

Bruce

[roy mawbey]

[bbspdstr]

As has been said a zillion times before, here is "just my 2 cents."
I was trained that ANY filler, even lead, is 'cheating.'

The body makers for Porsche's 356 line 'cheated'...usually with lead.
BUT, there has been other filler found under original paint.

In a nut shell, plastic fillers came along in the late '50s and early '60s, the older bodymen faded away, newbies got lazy or were never taught how to make metal smooth without fillers...and here we are.

Today, true "metal-finishing" is very rare. Most all bodies done by most shops and individuals have some sort of filler, maybe most all types in various places, under the primers and paint.

A very low spot can be filled with up to about an 1/8 of an inch (3mm) and still be "commercially acceptable."

Most bodies done today have a very thin coating of "mud" or "slick" but the majority goes on the floor. It's just for the small dings and scratches, grinder marks and places that just aren't worth the time to "finish." (bump, pick and file) The fillers are just "something to sand."

Where time is money and where past collision work is redone and rust repair is made, a true "metal finished" result, pre-primer, is very expensive, even if the skill level is available.

Some old work that must be redone better nowadays will come in a shop and plastic filler, AKA "Bondo", is removed first with a hammer and chisel. I have seen over an inch. There are sculptures around that use the original remnants of the body as an armature to build the filler on...and sculpt the final, usually VERY smooth, result.

But I digress. Most shops put filler over bare metal. I was trained by guys who were in their 60s when I was in my late 20s, so they are all gone now. Those guys were hired by me when I began my business as not only workers, but really as teachers. They disdainfully referred to plastic fillers as "straightener in a can." They could quickly make metal more straight without filler than a schlepp could with a can of Bondo.

I thought of starting a school before those guys faded away, but the time wasn't right...yet. No Internet in the '70s, no good way to find interested students.....because Plastic was already King.

Anyway, I was trained to be sure the metal was "surgically clean" prior to ANY filling, especially lead. Bare metal that will get a spreader or so of plastic needs some even but serious "tooth" for a mechanical bond, at least 80 grit. The plastic (definition of plasticity, pliable) "plastic" needs to be smoothed out in all directions to get into the roughed surface and not trap air. Each thin layer needs time between applications, needs to be VERY thoroughly mixed and cleaned (raked with a wire brush and blown with compressed air) after sanding and a reapplication of more. Commercially, there is no shame in a semi-translucent coating with small areas of opacity here and there.

Just know that once the plastic filler is begun, unlike lead, there is no further metalwork without starting all over in that certain area.

As far as any filler over an epoxy primer.....there are those who are "sure" it will work OK. I just KNOW that work I did 30 or more years ago with bare metal and a plastic coating over it is just fine today.

Just know that the sanding of plastic coatings is done bone dry, that a waterproof coating is applied as soon as possible (per manufacturer's instructions) and that NO moisture can get in the plastic from underneath...a pin-hole or a tiny missed crack can wreck a nice job in a few years in a moist environment...."or so I've heard."
Bruce

[tperazzo]

Thanks Phil,
I'm not a paint expert and there are stories all over the net supporting both sides. Here's what the manufacture says in brief form.



Here's a link to someone who tested both ways.

http://autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.shtml

I gather that today's bondo is pretty good and is ok to apply over metal that is clean and ground with 80 grit. It's done all the time.

Tom

[foamcar]

At one time I studied this topic quite a bit. As I recall, the downside claim was the chemical process released moisture, trapped under the filler, causing rust on the bare metal. Probably opening up a major discussion
Phil

[tperazzo]

Hi Justin,
The filler material and application was discussed and the guy painting my car is a filler direct to metal kind of guy. I trust him, but I did do some research and the manufacture says it's ok to apply to bare metal and lead. He does small sections at a time to prevent corrosion. I know its kind of contentious topic but it's above my pay grade, so I defer to him. Filler over epoxy is also allowed by the manufacturer if properly applied and prepped with 80-150 grit.

Here's a pic prior to filler skim coat.



I'm just happy it's getting closer to paint.
Cheers,
Tom

[JTR70]

Looks great there Tom and most importantly functional too. Just curious, I noticed on the left rear quarter a skim coat of filler; is your bodyman applying it directly to the metal without a sealer coat of epoxy first? Again just curious...

Justin

[tperazzo]

Sorry to leave the mirror location dilemma unfinished for so long. As it turn out my Durant mirror was locked up and wouldn't swivel as it should. After soaking the pivot mechanism for months it now works again. As you've already seen the mirror locations are all over the place on these cars and I was unsuccessful finding any factory literature explaining the preferred location even for dealer installed mirrors.

Jack and Bruce were very helpful as always getting me close. I installed the pedals,window frame, and seat in the car and verified that Jack's dimensions placed the mirror where I could actually use it. The bolts that secure the mirror are moveable, so I have almost 1/2" of movement fore and aft plus the new drilled holes are a bit big to adjust the angle of the mirror.

Hardware made by me....not original.





Long wooden template used to drill holes in door skin.


It's best to reference the non hinged edge of the door since it is mostly a straight edge. Same is true for the height referenced from the door bottom.


20 3/4" from door bottom and 32" to mirror base from door edge.







I'm not saying this is the correct location because there is no accurate definition concerning this mirror location but that is what Jack and I came up with and it works for me. Final adjustment to made after paint and with a decent gasket. The original gasket has shrunk and is as hard as a rock.

Thanks,
Tom

[JTR70]

I feel for you Tom and remember being in the same spot on my coupe. I was just mentally spent and ready to move onto final paint... however the car just wasn't "finished". This is why I skipped fully mounting and prepping my bumpers and hardware before the final paint job. I'm paying the price for that now and only wish I could go back.
You're playing it smarter than I did; Keep it up!
Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Tom, email me. ifix356@juno.com

[Don C]

Keep at it, it will be worth it!

[tperazzo]

[quote="Don C" post=36300]Tom, is this another car or the original from the past posts? I thought I remember it was almost ready for paint?
Regards,
Don[/quote
Ha ha, Yes this is the same car that has been ready for paint for almost two years now. All the metal work is done, but there are lots of details such as this rattly door that i'm taking care of now. All the panels and gaps are finished, bumpers fitted, chrome frames fitted etc. Now I'm painting the the interior black. and tiding up the inner fenders.
With any luck it will be irish green next year.
Tom

[Don C]

Tom, is this another car or the original from the past posts? I thought I remember it was almost ready for paint?
Regards,
Don

[tperazzo]

Here's my home brew method for fixing my drivers door sloppy hinges. Unfortunately the riveted on pieces are the ones heavily worn so swapping the bolted portion of the hinge wouldn't do me any good. I did find some decent pins though as my originals were worn in the middle where the door hinge half pivots on.




Rather than buying or making oversized pins I decided to sleeve the door hinge. 3/8 stainless tubing x .035 wall.

First I drilled and then reamed the hinge so the tubing was a slight interference fit.




Then I TIG'd the sleeve to the hinge.



Then I reamed the sleeve to the size of my standard pins.




Grind the height to the original and done. The upper hinge was a little harder to ream because the access isn't as good, but a cobbled together drill extension did the trick.


I'm very pleased with the improved positioning of the door. There is no movement even when lifting the end of the door. This makes adjusting the striker and setting the gaps way easier.

Thanks for watching my progress albeit slow.

Tom

[213532]

No accessory socket on C cars.

Mike