valve spring retainers

[badsix]

I have a 58 356 1600 normal engine I've had the heads rebuilt new valves, guides. I bought a set of springs from Stoddard they are the single spring 912 style. my spring retainers are for the 2 spring style that were stock on my 1600. problem is the 912 spring doesn't seat right on the early retainer. will 912 retainers and keepers work with my early valves. or can I use the 912 retainers with my early keepers. what does one do in this situation. there are 2 retainers that I have that someone has ground the seat area on the underside so the 912 spring will seat properly, is this a viable way to do this. it takes very little grinding to make them work.
Jay D.

[jacques]

Hi use the retainers for the later B heads. you can use C/912 intake valves, 3 grove keepers and C/912 keepers which allows the use of valve stem seals. the C/912 exhaust valves have a larger head size so it would be a lot of work to change the seats and compensate for the length difference. if you use the early retainers you may have difficulty in establishing the installed height.
j

[alan hall]

Only thing I might add is that if you use the "B" retainers you might have to shim the rocker stand up slightly to prevent rocker arms from hitting the retainer. Not sure how common this problem is, and I forget what shim you can use but it is a Porsche item, maybe from front suspension??

[badsix]

so with the B style retainer I should be able to use my single grove keepers and 912 springs?

also for installed spring height and pressure do I use B style specs.
now if I need to shim the rocker stand will my A pushrods work or will they be to short.
Jay D.

[jacques]

Hi Use the specs for 4th version on up 41mm intake and 40mm exhaust. you should only have to shim you rocker stand to correct for a new cam, valves that have the seats sunk or heads that have been machined or wrong height
cylinders etc. you can use link pin shims. the most important reason to shim the rocker arms or use different length pushrods is to ensure that the adjusting screw will allow oil to go to the rocker shafts.
j

[badsix]

thanks J
Jay D.

[Jack Staggs]

[quote="badsix"]I've tried both but no conclusive results, where's Jack when you need him.
Jay D.[/quote



I saw this on thesamba. Jay, I am willing to have a conversation with you here at absolutely no charge from my 50 years of 356 experience, but you may not like it. I know that you have a great deal of knowledge concerning ICE. I took the time to vet you. I have previously offered suggestions to your questions, and YOU didn't like them. Well, I didn't like that, and stopped answering your questions. This time, don't argue, and explain to me how you have done things before on other engines that you are familiar with. I don't care. Give simple answers to my questions. 356 solutions are all over the place, and I will be directing you to doing research on available sources to find answers. That's how I learned. The hard way, and when you do it that way, it sticks. Immediate solutions give immediate problems. If you are on board, I'm good, and others may learn. If not, well, ask someone that gives an answer that you like more than mine, and go with it.

[badsix]

Sorry I got under your skin, but I would just like some good clean answers to some questions i have. sometimes I may not understand and need a little more clarification, it's not arguing it's just me trying to understand, so I have to ask questions. you may not like them so be it. any assistance would be appreciated.
Jay D.

[jacques]

Hi Jay maybe if you ask the question many times on many forums you might get an answer you understand
j

[badsix]

Hi use the retainers for the later B heads. you can use C/912 intake valves, 3 grove keepers and C/912 keepers which allows the use of valve stem seals. the C/912 exhaust valves have a larger head size so it would be a lot of work to change the seats and compensate for the length difference. if you use the early retainers you may have difficulty in establishing the installed height.so I can use the B retainers ?

I can use C/912 valves but don't necessarily have to the A valves will work ?

by early retainers your talking A or B the A's don't fit right
j

thanks Jay D.

[badsix]

Hi use the retainers for the later B heads. you can use C/912 intake valves, 3 grove keepers and C/912 keepers which allows the use of valve stem seals. the C/912 exhaust valves have a larger head size so it would be a lot of work to change the seats and compensate for the length difference. if you use the early retainers you may have difficulty in establishing the installed height.
j

So I can use the B retainers, but don't need to use the C/912 valves I can use my A valves?

early retainers your talking A or B
Thanks Jay D.

[badsix]

I have. sometimes you guys talk in a language that's hard for someone new to these engines to understand. 41 mm valves? are they 1600A OR B OR 912 I don't know, early-late I have no idea for sure what that means. you can understand what i'm talking about can't you I just want to get these heads together as easily as possible I just need some guidance on what parts I takes to do it.
Jay D.

[jacques]

ok
A and B valves are identical except for S-90 intakes (40mm) C/SC/912 valves are different. the exhaust is bigger 34mm vs 31mm the intakes have the same dia 38mm they also use 3 groove keepers and a corresponding different retainer. the 41mm(some may use a different number but be consistent and check the spring for pressure and coil bind) i referred to was the intake installed height of the replacement single spring. the machine shop that replaced the guides did the valve job should give you back the heads properly assembled with the right parts if they don't know how to do it properly find someone else. if you have the heads off the engine have a proper at least 3 angle valve job done and check the guides then worry about assembly.

[badsix]

I had new valves , guides and a 3 angle seat job done, the springs were junk so they didn't put them on. I said I would do it, that's were I'm at now. I have the new springs but they are taller about 6mm taller than the used A springs. these springs are the ones that everyone sells to fit all 356. I see that the B retainers are of a different design looks like they are made to compensate for the 6mm taller spring. i'm wondering if I could use my A valves, the springs I have with the B retainers and the A keepers. set the pressure and installed height to B spec. and be done thanks I don't mean to be a pain in the ass.
Jay D.

[Jack Staggs]

616 heads from '58 use single springs. Your heads may be earlier, or FULL RACE!!! You mentioned that 2 of your retainers have been ground to accept a single spring. Please show a pic of a ground & unground retainer so I can see the mod. Are your retainers steel? Do your new springs fit in the perch on the head?