57 356 A mild resto

[merbesfield]

During:



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PS before:



During:



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The process was fairly involved. First I made a paper pattern, laid it out on the sheet metal and transferred it with my punch. I then began to use the metal brake to create the corrugated ribs. 8mm down, 16mm across and 8mm back up. My break is a Chinese suck ass piece of shit so it made the job very tough. Did I say don't buy Chinese tools! So once the ribs were laid out and in place I then had to hand form the closed curved ends. From doing this in the past I had a steel buck that I made for the Land Cruiser that was almost perfect. I have also learned from the past to not make myself too crazy about the ends bc once they are welded, finished, seam sealed and under coated who can really see much. Because the ribs create rigidity and the piece has multiple curves, compound? It was necessary to cut relief slices into the ribs so it could flex when beating it on the sand bag. I also had to slice the ends of the ribs so they would close up when hitting against the buck. Lots of whacking with mallets and body hammers. Once the shape was there, I tack welded the piece together, metal worked it more and then more smoothing. I also used the English wheel several times to smooth out the dents from the sand bag. Still more work to go. I planished the areas as needed and generally worked the piece until it was close. I decided to wait for my buddy, Scott's help holding it in place before the final fit and welding. I only have two hands and needed three or four. In the end, as I said, a good experience, but smart money would be to buy stamped metal, assuming they are good pieces. Looking at the time invested, I probably would bill out at $1 per hour and still have to file bankruptcy. Sort of how our government works. Sorry this is so long. Thanks for up loading the pics Justin.

[JTR70]

No Worries! Oh yeah, All of that stuff! How about when you have your patch panel in the perfect position and you get your first tack-weld down or so you think; go for the next tack and the patch falls loose! THEN, the broken tack now is in the way and has to be ground off so ya gotta climb out of the car to go over and remove it! We could go on and on could we not? Looking forward to some progress shots on Tuesday!
Justin

[merbesfield]

Thanks buddy. Yep burned my foot many times tonight. How about when you drop one of the tools outside the car or the patch you are trying to fits drops, so,you have to move all the shit out of the way, bump your head one more time and climb out just to get it. I was throwing the F bomb around that's for sure. Glad my kids weren't around. Off to bed.

[JTR70]

Hey Mark,
It was like looking into a mirror reading your last two entries. You had the same heavy feelings and thoughts I did a few summers ago. A full day spent with not a lot of progress to show but merely creating a new jumping off point to build on for the next days session. Tired, hungry covered in grinder dust, annoyed with all the back filling you had to do around your new patch because the old surrounding metal was on the thin side and kept blowing through as you stitched! Know it well! Also don't forget about that red hot slag splatter that sometimes falls into your shoe that the tongue catches and channles down inside. Before you can react your bunrned and the slag is cooled from the water in your skin. Had many a day like that and I remember climbing into my Honda for the ride home with a slanted negative outlook on the project and the way its coming. BUT once home I showered, ate, watched a movie or got online to decompress it always melted away and I was ready to hit it again. All of us DIY's go through it! Glad you did not burn up and glad to hear your feeling better! Your not alone!! Justin

[merbesfield]

I'm happy to report the shop is fine. I went back and checked. I can also say that even a few hours break gives a clearer head. After seeing what I did today I don't feel so bad and will be ready to go at it again in a day or so. I guess once you get tire and frustrated it is best to put down the tools and take a break. I should be ready to go by Tuesday night shop night.

[merbesfield]

Well Justin and all, today was one of those days we were just discussing where you feel like you may never finish your project and be buried dead or alive in it. I started working on the rear inner fender patches and as always I underestimated the degree of difficulty. I guess that is why RD charges $585 per panel. After 5+ hours of work, I have done a total of three patches. Bc the panel has so many compound curves it is difficult to do any patches that are of significant size. And I still have to metal finish the outside. Top it off with three fires from sparks, one near disaster. I removed as much of that damn insulation from the area behind the rear fire wall and under the rear window channel that Justin has mentioned in his posts. Well while grinding some sparks went in the damn hole and caught fire. Panicked I blew it out, which probably just stoked the fire. When I blew from the opposite side the fire came out and blew up into my headliner, which I had carefully pulled back to protect. Before I realized what had happened, the headliner was burning and burned a nice hole in my good, now bad, headliner. Add that to the parts list. I am still having nightmares about a smoldering ember remaining. As a matter of fact I am going to run back over to the shop just to check, not that I could do anything at this point. With it taking 5 hours today, I am looking at 25-30 more hours for just this area alone. Maybe i should buy the panel, though there is a lot of good solid metal there. Will post pics when there is something worthy.

[JTR70]

I agree you cannot take water protection for granted; especially with these cars. I went on your link and read your description but could not view the photos unless "I'm a member and logged in". BS policy! If someone wants to join a forum they will but I don't believe you help your cause by annoying them with a mandate.(IMHO) That is why all content on this site will always be available to all. If you would like to join great; if not thats cool too go ahead and lurk to your hearts desire. Anyway it sounds like a fantastically well preserved example. You have a nice pair of cars in your collection. I'd be shocked if you ever sold them! I don't know if you can load pics from an Ipad.(don't own one) Only one way to find out. I hope you'll post some; would love to see it in detail and would be a welcomed addition to the 911 section! Justin

[merbesfield]

You can never be to cautious when it comes to water protection and sealing. When you spend as much time as we do fixing all this stuff the last thing you want to think about is rust. When I did the 912 I sealed the shit out of it bc I never wanted to see rust again. Fact is if Porsche were to build one of these today they would do the same thing, maybe not as well, but they would surely do a better job than they did back then. The problem is that there are those that say, "well it's not original", we I say screw that, I want rust protection. I try to strike a balance between the two and still have it look original, just like your drain tube idea.

Yes the avatar is my S. I added that pic from my iPad. Can I post pics to the forum using my iPad? I was not aware that was possible. Here is the link to my S thread.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?66125-My-new-73S

[JTR70]

You could try a silicone sealer after installation but its still no guarantee. I do agree with what Roy said earlier about our cars not being subject to the eliments as in years past but there will always be some exposure either from a freak rainstorm while your out or just a quick washing in the driveway. The water is going to run off the roof and follow the edges of the rubber seal and some will slip past it and find its way into the frame. I just wanted to give this water some place to go other than on my new upholstry. BTW: I like your avatar photo. Is that your '73 S?

[merbesfield]

Hey Mark, here is the link for the drains: http://porsche356abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/34-58367-The-75-Junkyard-Carrera-coupe-restoration.html?limit=6&start=54 Gordons photo really takes the fear out fabricating the panel. Justin

Justin, trying to understand the pics. Does the tube you installed run from the rear window lip?

Edit, just looked at the last pic and now it makes sense. Yes from the rear window corner. The funny thing is I have zero rust in that spot, but I guess it just went past the lip and as you said ended up lower, but fortunately did not rust the lip. I will do some further investigating. Can you add additional sealing when reinstalling the rear window that will help? I know you are not supposed to need it, but obviously the seals shrink and then leak.

[JTR70]

Hey Mark, here is the link for the drains: http://porsche356abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/34-58367-The-75-Junkyard-Carrera-coupe-restoration.html?limit=6&start=54 Gordons photo really takes the fear out fabricating the panel. Justin

[gkw]

Mark, the fender well metal I replaced was pretty straight forward
I used common 20 Ga. cold roll steel which would not make that deep
of rib by pressing with out splitting. I slit above and below the ribs and formed the ribs on a finger brake. Then scribed and trimmed then
welded. I did the shaping with a planishing hammer last to match the
original. One more thing, some of the welds are hard to make in
that area. I found this pic. to help explain. Good luck, Gordon

[merbesfield]

Roy, my qtr window bottoms are perfect. The pics don't really show how good the seat pans actually are. When I removed the tar, they were actually shinny silver colored like brand new steel that had not been exposed to air. Amazing for 55 years. As for looking under the other areas, it is sort of you do or don't, once you start you are committed to ripping them off. I will definitely do some serious snooping before I remove them, especially the back one to be sure the window leaking did not cause any problems there.

[roy mawbey]

Yes I agree also, fabricate your own and it should be fine. A question what is the area like when you open those rear quarter windows. The area that is flat on which the seal rests on? Has that not rusted a bit?

The rear seat floors look very good I have seen so many that were awful. Nice car to do I reckon.

Again, if you are sure, the insulation pads could be left. But be sure because you don't want to go back to that when its all done.

But in saying that really how many of take our 356 cars out in really rainy weather? Took mine out yesterday avoiding floods keeping to dry roads. One hour back its raining again and today non-stop rain. Staying in for New Years eve

Happy new year to all

Roy

[merbesfield]

Scott is only running that wheel on one spot while he waits for another one of our buds to deliver on the matching Fuch. I agree with you about the water leakage, makes complete sense and I also have a hole back under the qtr near the engine compartment. Not sure how to fix that one. I am not cutting things apart to get to it. Thinking about an extended carbide burr bit to clean out the hole and then leave it for drainage. I have also poured converters and blown it through with compressed air followed by Zero rust. I think that will put the rust at bay for many years, esp given it will never see rain. Where did you put drain holes? I don't recall seeing that.

I will definitely be making my own panels, just looked and they are $535 from RD. I can make my panels myself with about $2 bucks worth of metal and several hours of time. I have made much harder bits. Still debating whether to remove the remaining sound pads, but my gut tells me they are ok bc they are up high and no signs of any issues, though you never know.