1958 T2 Restoration

[John Pierce]

Hi Chris!

There's so much to learn at the beginning that it quickly becomes overwhelming. No need to get a blast cabinet at the beginning. A lot of the early stuff is assessing the car and making a plan of where to start. All the builds on Justin's site are excellent and can help formulate a plan. I like to take on one section at a time so I can focus on it and ignore the rest of the rust. Pick an easy spot first so you can develop your skills and confidence. I chose the trunk and battery box area on mine. A MIG is definitely needed as the metal on these cars is very thin after all these years. TIG looks fabulous but takes a lot more skill and is tough on thin metal especially metal that's been rusty. Get a MIG from a reputable manufacturer with thin wire. Make sure to use copper backing plates to help prevent blow through.

One step at a time and you'll see nice results.

Cheers,

JP

[Don C]

Hi Chris,
As John said a MIG welder should be your 1st big investment. I recently purchased a 120 volt Miller 141 MIG welder for the garage and am very satisfied with it. It's more than capable of any kind of welding you'll encounter doing a 356 restoration, a little more expensive than some other welders out there but Miller makes a quality product that will last and give you trouble free welding for years.

[Jonesy_356]

Chris, concur, a mid range MIG will see you through most jobs. A decent set of metal shaping hammers and dollies. Some good clamps ( Vice-grip style). A good angle grinder with thin cutting blades. A Dremel for the smaller jobs. A set of tin shears ( 'aviation' shears). A good vice. Maybe a press.

For your body work, getting comfortable now with the three basic functions or stretching, shrinking and bending will help in the future. Practice making stuff with your welder, hammer and dollies using old scrap. You'll get it in no time.

Jonesy

[blue58356]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback.

Chris

[Jbrooks]

Chris
The welder is the most important investment. Get a good one Hobart or Miller with the Co2/argon mix. Don't use the gas less, hollow core filler wire, it's just not that strong. I have had a Hobart handler 180 for years. I have all three types of welders, but rarely get out the TIG Or Stick any more. For your restoration the wire feeder and gun are most important. A 6 foot lead is fine, I bought a 12 foot Tweco gun so I did not need to move the cart as much, but the extra friction causes the .023 wire to jam, stick with the 6' leads for small wire. Also get one that will use the ten pound large spools of wire, not just the little 6" ones from lowes. You are welding sheet, not plate. Mostly stitch welding. It's pretty easy but takes practice and I found learning what the arc sounds like when set up right and what the puddle of liquid looks like is the key.

The local welding store can let you demo machines and will advise you on what to get. Buy your machine, some 3" steel casters and a couple sticks of 1/8 wall 1 1/2" angle iron and build your welding cart first. Make it so it holds your machine , with a shelf below for the extra wire, plyers and consumables, casters at the corners. A handle to move it and a rack for gun and hose another for ground wire. Make it so everything stows neatly, mad rolls easy.

Power the welder from a dedicated wall plug, I recommend 10ga wire from 20 amp breaker,. If your breaker box is in the shop just drop a new circuit below the box. if you use an extention cord, only use a 10ga stranded wire, don't go over 50' to the welder. Nothing worse than finding the ground fault breaker for the garage is also tied to all the bathrooms and out side plugs in the house. The welder will draw about 12-14 amps . I used a 4 plug water proof box on the end of 10ga flexable stranded wire. I Riveted a flat magnet from an old hard drive on the back. It will stick to the fender or the welding cart, allows me to power the MIG and a couple grinders at the same time. I also got a fist full of 1" plumbing unions and female "T's". Made a air pig so I can use several air tools with out swapping the hosed.

Remember it all been done before, buy guys just like us.

[JTR70]

Lots of good tips to get you started Chris. A good MIG welder= your "right hand". A good Air compressor= your "left hand". When I bought mine I made sure it was at least a 5HP (rated at 5HP)as anything smaller will have trouble keeping up with most airtools and spray guns which means lots of interruptive lag time while your waiting for it catch back up.

Nice Shop John! Didn't realize you where a full on Porsche restoration outfit. Nice to have you along with Bruce and Jack to keep us hobbyist on track.
Justin

[Jbrooks]

Also for the air side, get a large accumulator. I got a half dozen large propane tanks that had rusted bottoms at the scrap yard. Cut off the bottoms and welded two them back together. Put them in the attic. An extra couple hundred extra gallons of air is good and the compressor will start less often. Even with a 60 gal/ 5 hp, the extra air is good.

If you plum in your air, take the branch lines from the top of the main pipe. Make the main line go up hill from the compressor, so condensation water will drain back to the compressor. Put a water trap and drain valve on the first vertical pipe next to the compressor. Put in the "T's" in up position, top of the supply, then a couple 90s to the drop for the QD. This will help keep water out of the tools and paint guns. You can use Schedule 80 PVC (thick wall) for air in your garage. A couple air lines above you work area is really nice. You can plum a three car garage with 3/4" lines for $150. And take it from a old guy, you can not have too many QD's. Remember, you can jump out of an airplane with 100 feet of air hose or welding lead and never hit the ground, because it will get tangled up on something.

I am not a restoration shop, just an old enthusiast with a 50 year accumulation and never throw anything away. I still have the 356 I drove to high school

[bbspdstr]

I still have the 356 I drove to high school

Wish I could say the same, but I waited until sophomore year in college (art school) to trade my '60 AH Bug-eye for a T-2 Speedster and cash in '65.

My erstwhile first 356 business partner, Tony Euganeo/Das Keyman, got his first 356, a '59 A Coupe, when he worked for me after high school while IN high school. That would have been in '73, I think. He still has that one!

BTW, you are a brave man to use a Cab frame as a brace on an early chassis on a rotisserie, but then again, the dash is in place. I use a large turnbuckle interrupting 1" square tubing with a plate that bolts to the rear firewall and the other end with a muffler clamp that attaches to a cross tube up front. I forget the exact number, but in the '55-on back days, Cabriolet production was less than 400 units per year. A rare car that appears to be in great shape now. Nice shop, too.

-Bruce

EDIT----Please excuse my confused assumption. The picture is likely of Tim's shop. I've never been there. I read the initial thread on this site and you posted this:
"Make at trip up to Hickory NC., and visit Tim Herman's. It's well worth the drive. He has several cars in work and you can see what the best restoration shop in the country does, and what you are in for. He has a seven year waiting list, but he knows the sources and will give you good advice. He probably knows more that anyone close."

All I can say is that I am farther away from y'all than Tim is.

Also, I have not been lucky enough to see ALL the restorations shops in the country to make a judgement call.

Why DON'T other pro specialists (like Tim) post on sites like this to help others? I, for one, could easily say I'm "too busy" but I have my own reasons for making time occasionally for this. (I like it) Unfortunately, I am not retired!

I would see Tim occasionally on the Registry site when I used to participate over there, but not in a grass-roots helping kind of way, just answering esoteric questions. No problem...we're all different.

I did some aluminum cold air carb ducting for a Carrera GT for Tim when he was still a banker, back in the '70s. Stamped the 3-digit match numbers in them, too. I guess he didn't like them or some other SNAFU and I was eventually paid by Warren Eades in CA. The best I can say about Tim is that he DOES know his stuff about Porsches...and the worst I can say is I do not know if he's ever gotten his hands dirty DOING what he is known for.

Another visit could be in Waynesboro, VA to see the Weldon Scrogham facility. A showroom with his and Porsches of all models being brokered, a nice parts collection and workshop in a big ol' bank building downtown that he bought and converted. He has been at this since well before Tim or I have.

Then there is the fairly new Road Scholars somewhere south of Pennsylvania but they are also an unknown for me. I hear they "win shows" but that's about it. Time is the proving aspect for any quality shop's reputation. Cubic dollars wins shows, real knowledge, experience and honest enthusiasm wins good repeat clients.

I can also say that in 7 years, I will be either retired or not around at all (from unfiltered painting (including early Imron)) or handling lead bare-handed for 50 years or some other work-related hazzard. I throw that out to the hobbyists as a warning...protect your health!

Another really good restorer of 356s out west, Tim Goodrich, is in failing health and it is not from his vocation. Ya just never know, so I find it uplifting that younger persons keep the torch lit and it is shown here on Justin's site...especially by him!

Thus, as I and my generation of aging 356 enthusiasts fades, my wait-list is shorter whether I finish the cars in-house now or not.

A good friend told me last week that he realized upon turning 65 that each year thereafter should be thought of as a "dog year"...like turning 66 can make one feel like 73, etc. I had to concur.

[Jbrooks]

Bruce

Yes that's Tim's Shop in Hickory. The Cab was the best in process photo in my phone. That cab is standing alone with out any internal bracing. The frame is on to check the fit.
I spoke to Tim Goodrich just before Rennsport. He is doing OK considering the ALS. I was a teenager that was flipping 356's in DC back in the mid 60's. Back with the Newspaper had 15 or 20 every day. Buy for 500.00 repair the rust in front of the doors and sell for $1500, thought I was going to be rich until the draft board got me. Back then a PCA meeting was going over to Walt's house on the weekend and changing a clutch or fixing brakes or tuning someones car. 15 or 20 old guys telling me what to do since I could get under the car. These Old Guys were probably in there 30's.

I think the old guys like us should help pass on the knowledge. The problem I found with the PCA is it filled up with Doctors and Lawyers who did not maintain their 911's, just threw money at them. The registry is getting that way too. There is a real knowledge gap in the 356 community today. But on the other hand you now can get sheet metal and better engine parts today.

[JTR70]

Quote:Why DON'T other pro specialists (like Tim) post on sites like this to help others? I, for one, could easily say I'm "too busy" but I have my own reasons for making time occasionally for this. (I like it) Unfortunately, I am not retired! Bruce

Hi Bruce, I would have to say for the most part that shops aren't interested in showing you how to repair your car; they want the job.
Just a theory of course.
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Bruce

Yes that's Tim's Shop in Hickory. The Cab was the best in process photo in my phone. That cab is standing alone with out any internal bracing. The frame is on to check the fit.
I spoke to Tim Goodrich just before Rennsport. He is doing OK considering the ALS. I was a teenager that was flipping 356's in DC back in the mid 60's. Back with the Newspaper had 15 or 20 every day. Buy for 500.00 repair the rust in front of the doors and sell for $1500, thought I was going to be rich until the draft board got me. Back then a PCA meeting was going over to Walt's house on the weekend and changing a clutch or fixing brakes or tuning someones car. 15 or 20 old guys telling me what to do since I could get under the car. These Old Guys were probably in there 30's.

I think the old guys like us should help pass on the knowledge. The problem I found with the PCA is it filled up with Doctors and Lawyers who did not maintain their 911's, just threw money at them. The registry is getting that way too. There is a real knowledge gap in the 356 community today. But on the other hand you now can get sheet metal and better engine parts today.

Great reply! Thank you....

I was flipping those $500 Speedsters for $650 and each one paid a month's overhead for me in school (parents took care of tuition, the rest was on me, including the buy money for that first car.) That was FUN!

Walt Woodhead was an amazing resource for esoteric parts. He loaned the original cold air ducts, upper and lower, for me to copy for Tim Herman.

My first PCA meeting was in a back room of a smoke-filled small restaurant and the lot was 'filled' with only 356s in '66 and yes, those 'old guys' were in their 30's, maybe 40's.

Yes, the soon-to-be-dubbed "gold chain crowd" landed in our midst and a business opportunity arose.....but a lot of the initial "fun" was lost. I have always invited customers to 'help' on their own cars on a Saturday....and after a day or two of that, they "hear their Mommas callin' 'em to dinner" and thereafter I do not have trouble getting paid.

I would likely have still be teaching if my Draft Board had listened to my Superintendent of Schools, but they insisted I see a far-away country in southeast Asia whether I wanted to or not. I had to do something, so I enlisted in the USAF to fly...and expected to become a career pilot....but TAC and bad sinuses didn't mix, so I went home earlier than 7 years as a Veteran...of Texas, but with a DD214.

That meant another career decision, so since '71 I have been fixing old Porsches for others...it just happened and evolved and here we are.

Justin,
As for shops not being run by good kids who "share".....that's their professional prerogative. I tried to get shop owners to participate in a "guild" of sorts over 20 years ago so we could share techniques, parts sources and other "inside" info to help each other....but only a few thought that idea had merit and the majority were happy to stay marooned on their own islands. F-M. Most wanted everyone to think they were "the best" but I took umbrage when they used the present politician's type of mudslinging against another shop instead of just selling themselves and letting their work do the talking.

Yeah, of course I have a few stories of that happening to me.....like seeking the/another restorer who 'dissed' me at a big show but being interrupted by other restorers there and a few of his clients who told me I had to "get in line" for a piece of that guy, now departed. He hid, so no arrests were made....and it is always sad when things like this get in the way of the potential for "fun" in this hobby/business.

The cars will be around long after we will, so it is imperative that younger people get to know, understand and find they actually like a car, like a 356 or early 911, and therefore it's our obligation to pass all of the above on to them. Straight up, no perversion of the passion.
(Bill, I did not say no perversion altogether, so relax....)

-Bruce

[Jack Staggs]

I'm with you, Bruce. I do my very best to get along with all the shops, restorers, fabricators, parts houses, etc. I believe it definitely serves us in the trenches (and our clients!) to work together, even at a low level. You never know when a part, tool, idea, or process will be needed on either side of the coin to help when someone is caught by the short hairs. No one can know/have it all at any given time. Thank you for your generosity and help in this regard.

[blue58356]

Alright, here is the first in a line of likely dumb questions. I purchased the Service Manual for the car from Charlie White, and the smaller "Clymer" style Service Manual. I have searched this forum, the 356Registry forum, and the general Internet with no real success. It must be an obvious job, so no one has written about it, BUT... how do you remove the front brake drums?

I have removed the tire/rim, removed the rubber dust cover, removed the cotter pin. I loosened the star wheel to relieve the brake shoe pressure. I tried to wiggle the whole drum assembly off, but it doesn't seem to budge. It rotates freely. I don't want to start smacking it with a hammer until I am sure I have the correct pieces taken off.

Do I need to take off this black cap before the drum, or will this come off with the drum, and I just need to tap it from the back?





Can anyone point me to a good place to find this specific level of detail?

Thanks,
Chris

[MMW]

That "black cap" is a dust cap. It is just tapped on with a mallet a sort of press fit. You can try pulling on it (kind of rocking it side to side) with channel locks which will likely leave marks or look closely around the edge where the steel cap ends & the aluminum drum starts. Try to tap a slim screwdriver or chisel in there to "force" it out. Again it may leave marks. Once it starts to move you can go around it in different spots tapping the screwdriver in to remove it.

Once removed you should find the wheel bearing locknuts. Either two nuts jammed together or a single clamp type with a small allen bolt. If the allen bolt type then loosen the allen bolt & unscrew the clamp. If you see two nuts then remove them. Once removed the drum should pull straight off, be careful not to drop the bearing in the dirt as it will be loose in the end.

Hope that helps.

[Jonesy_356]

Chris,


I am so glad you are asking questions like this. There is an assumed body of knowledge, and I, for one, have always found that assumptions are the mother of all f-ups.

These Porsche front ends are similar in engineering to VW. That cup shaped item in your first pgotgraph is just a cap that covers some nuts underneath If you get a broad faced screwdriver or other similar tool and use it to lever the cup off, it should fall away pretty easily. You may need to force the issue a little with some gentle strikes. It is pressed laterally on ( ie, towards the centre of the car) and the point of purchase is in behind the first little lip. The cup is slightly domed shaped, like a mushroom. Gentle persuasion around the whole circumference, a little at a time, should get it started.

That should get you started, but there may be more dramas with the bearing races..

Good luck!

Jonesy