BT5 resto

[Jonesy_356]

Cont...




















So there you have it. I believe the outers are damaged enough to warrant replacing wholesale. My plan was to cut them off slowly and if the inner longs are also rust damaged and do not warrant keeping, I was going to fab them up myself.

[Jonesy_356]

...meanwhile I have another head scratcher.

I am finishing off the lower section of the RH TT support wall and the reinforcing box section or forward longitudinal. I have made the box section (just a metal mock-up at this stage) using the dimensions in Mr Roland's book. It's ok, but I learned a lot and the next will be better. Anyway, the forward end of this box section I think is open. But when I mate the forward end to the box section to the vertical surface of the TT support strut, there is an opening in the bottom section where the TT support strut curves around. The box section must come down to the level of the bottom of the TT support strut because the lower flange that forms the box section lower side must mate up with the V panel that goes in later, and the mating surface extends horizontally from the bottom of the support strut. Perhaps this is why these sections rust so badly - they had no 'closing panel' of their own. Unfortunately my LH one is far too damaged for me to compare. Any advice welcome

The mock-up



and the gap that results...






I think my solution will be to make a mini-closing panel for this section but I just want to make sure I am not missing something obvious.

Many thanks in advance, Jonesy

[John Pierce]

Hi,

Looks like things are coming along nicely. I agree with you that media blasting will give you a real good idea of what metal is good and can be saved. Once that is done you may be surprised that not much is good and the whole longitudinal may need to be replaced.

I recently installed the same front sections where you are now. This can be seen here:
http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/14008-63-356B-T-6-Rebuild.html?limit=6&start=198

Keep up the good work.

John

[Jonesy_356]

John, thank you so much! I had seen your thread before when I stayed up one night, but then I couldn't recall where I had seen these images. This one seems to show that there is in fact no gap at all - seems I have done something wrong and will need to re-do. many thanks.

[Jonesy_356]

OK - the penny has just dropped. What I am missing is repair to the flange of the TT support upright, the vertical member. Once I do that, everything works. Easy - many thanks!

[roy mawbey]

Jonesy,

Thanks for the photos of your longitudinals, jack receiver and front
closing panel. These alone shows me the condition I needed to see. Taking those items alone, would make me replace and not patch. Your photos are good enough to see the pin holes and therefore thin metal.No doubt the heater tubing and supports are rusted as well.

After using a hammer and screwdriver on mine 40 years ago I estimate mine were 85% better than yours. Thats why I was able to patch areas. The jacking points also were usable on mine but I reinforced them.

Taking into account the level of rust I guess the battery box, the torsion bar support area, the suspension top supports to the inner
side walls could be be really defective as well.

I did have to patch a small area of the front floor but overall they when stripped were very good. Your floor looks good in places except for the area removed already.Trouble is, its got to be good enough to weld to.

Everyone of these areas you show have been restored and documented by Justin on his threads. But... he used a rotiserrie and has all the tools to do this work. He also has the skill now to attempt everything that seems to have been thrown at him. Its like Bruce he is the same. What is going to be your destination? A runner that is safe to use or a car thats stands any inspection?

Really good to have the photo's even more would be good. I stand to be corrected but your 356 and its condition is probably the same as many others before the work. Is it going to be a labour of love over years trying to do it yourself taking your time?

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Look! Some original undercoat!

Sorry. I am so-o-o-o used to seeing the icebergs via those tips.

Jonesy, I would respectfully suggest you scrape all around whatever MAY be savable and don't waste time on that which will need to be ALL new, like the whole longitudinal. Trying to save the one pictured would be a huge waste of time.

I get some nasty 356s to restore. We used to call these examples "parts cars." They often have previously patched parts like that done years ago with rust perforations in the original metal next to the overlaps. I get outer metalwork to replace that had the rust hammered in instead of being removed, a plate over the area and carefully, often beautifully brazed on and leaded over.....only to have rust perforations grow from under the overlap and need a repair twice the size.

Often, doing it "right" takes less time and is therefore a better and more valuable result. You're on a learning curve like the rest of us, so it may be tempting to cut corners, but know that you need good corners to cut and knowing that, like the forward strut you are finding your way through, it's an awareness of the "big picture" that's so important.

Good to see hobbyists learning-by-doing what I'm still learning about after 43 years of being paid to do it! I think the dedication and tenacity shows a love for the cars by all of us.

-Bruce

[Jonesy_356]

Roy and Bruce, thank you very much for your comments. I really respect, value and appreciate your time. Thank you for confirming my assessment that at least the outer longitudinal would need to be replaced wholesale. The replacement parts are already sitting in my shed, alongside my new forward floor half and other bits and pieces from Restoration Design.

Roy, the intent is for the car to be a daily driver (although it may not get driven daily). I am a big believer that cars (especially Porsches) are meant to be driven - preferably often and hard. I just got back from a 2000+ km round trip in my 1971 911 Targa T, and loved every mile of it. I will not be selling the 356 anytime soon, so it really only needs to please me. Having said that, I want to do the best job I can and already on the repairs that I have done, I plan to re-do some as my skills build. I accept that this 'wastes' time but so does gardening and chatting to your family. Time wise - I have about six years to complete this job. I may just make it. I would like to have it in paint by my 50th birthday, 2-and-a-bit years hence. We'll see how I go!

Bruce - your 'undercoat' comment made me laugh! On receiving the car and getting it up on blocks my first thought was 'well, at least there are not too many 'bubba' repairs to undo. The trick is not to become 'bubba' myself, though, isn't it? Although, while my learning journey has only just begun in earnest (at least in relation to high quality, 'invisible' sheet metal repairs) I cannot conceive doing 'repairs' in the manner you describe.

I will get my RH front strut area done to my satisfaction and then start on the long. I will update on that area once I take the tin-opener to it.

many thanks again,

respectfully, Jonesy.

[JTR70]

Bruce's analogy of the "tip of the iceberg" is so true! The holes you can see are merely the center of a much larger rust crater on the inside. If you had the longs. media blasted many more holes would quickly make themselves known. The guys are right a full replacement is the only way to go here. Not the news you were hoping for I'm sure Jonesy but you're going to feel so good about this area once they are all buttoned up and installed with fresh metal.

[Jonesy_356]

Many thanks to you all, it's coming along nicely. New (2nd) attempt at fwd long extension is well under way and I think will fit nicely.

I have a dilemma. This web-site is so G-damned good I'm now spending all my time looking at it rather than doing any work! This is a serious resource for anyone restoring one of these machines. many many thanks to our host and all the amazing guys with decades of knowledge (not individually - collectively) that contribute. It's very much appreciated by a guy like me.

Going to put in an order for Steve's Carrera book today - hope there are some left.

Jonesy

[JTR70]

Jonesy, I am so glad to hear that you enjoy your visits here and that its helping you along with your restoration journey. BTW: thanks again for sharing your build with all of us. Keep us posted on how you're coming along!
Justin

[Jonesy_356]

OK, started on the 'exploratory surgery' of the LH longitudinal area. As predicted, it's terminal .





Im still not sure which way to go - whether to replace the entire outer long or butt join at the high point under the 3-way weld. This weld on my car, from why I can see, is nice and looks unrusted and factory. However, it is obvious someone has been here before me...







There are some minor rust holes in the lower forward inner long - fairly standard stuff from what I read. I will repair with my new TIG welder. The surface rust is reasonably severe on all of the inner forward surfaces, including the inside of the outer closing panel. I will have to lift the lower few inches of the inner closing panel to put a patch on the inner long in that spot. Should be do-able.

Obviously the inner bulkheads are trash and will need to be replaced. I will probably just fab these up. The back end of the front heater pipe, where it mates to the flex hose, is pretty scrappy too so I will need to do something there. I had a quick look at the inlines stores and couldn't find a replacement flex-pipe, but this one seems to be in good condition so perhaps I can just re-use it.





Also, there is weld-mark/HAZ from a 'fish-plate' that has been placed on the inside of the inner longitudinal, where it makes its last bend towards the rear seat upright.




Thanks for looking! Jonesy

[John Pierce]

It's not looking too badly now. Media blasting will clean up the surface rust and give you an idea if there are other areas that need to be replaced. Be sure to save the center heater muffler as they are expensive to replace.

Great start!

[JTR70]

Not the worst longs I've seen Jonesy but they definitely needed to be opened up to be cleaned, patched and sealed. You'll sleep sound once their all buttoned up again.

[Jonesy_356]

Thanks guys.

John I will recycle the muffler, it appears serviceable.

Slight side track - here is the first patch on the battery box repair. I bought some zinc anneal sheeting, rather than the CRS I have been using. It is great to work with! I think I will redo a lot of my previous patches with tho stuff.

I add this small patch as it is the first 'live' weld I have made with my new TIG. What a great machine! Speed is your friend with TIG I have found (after many practices/fails). It wasn't the ideal tool for this patch, and I had to do some re-work with the MIG, but I will be doing a lot more with the TIG from here on in.




Jonesy