'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[bbspdstr]

Solid boots are the way to go and I have had no luck stretching them over either end intact. Eric Wills uses new pins when he does my trans work. When I did my own, I did what Phil recommends and kept track of which end of which pin was in which axle undercut end and used a little sealer.
Amazingly, if you don't get it right and the tube is opened up even a tiny crack in the undercut, a leak develops.

Bruce

[John Pierce]

Does anyone like one particular solid boot over another? Stoddard? Sierra Madre? The one from Stoddard appears quite shiny.



Stoddard

[Jbrooks]

Those solid boots are a pain, you will tear 20% of them. You do have to remove the tubes and re align the rear wheels. BUT if you soak them in boiled water for 20-30 minutes, smooth/polish the outside edge of the Axel tube with 400 Grit sand paper to remove burrs and then grease big end. They have to be Real HOT when stretching. I have a pair of 3/8" rods that are polished to stretch the rubber over the big end of the tube. I also turn the inside out first. Wear gloves the boot is hot and when you grab it it get hot on your finger tips.

HOT rubber and red grease and 2 foot rods are the trick.

[bbspdstr]

Speaking of rods, I have used a length of (3/4"?) threaded rod with really thick washers of the correct ID/OD that I found (literally "somewhere" as it's been too long ago to remember) to pull the tube and the bearing housing back together after pressing it apart.

Yep, I feel that if you need to remove the tube, it may as well be done "by the book." Now, if someone feels lucky enough to force what is metaphorically like the head of a 12 pound baby though a passage that originally was meant for ......something significantly smaller....then why not try just slathering it up with dish soap when just taken out of boiling water and getting it over the bearing housing/shock mount arm?

There is still more than a little disassembly and reassembly any way you cut it....so unless the transaxle is coming out anyway, the best split boot is the typical replacement. OK enough if done correctly. The tubes must be 90* to the case with the big end clamped first, etc.

However.....back to the take-apart part:
Secured in a vice horizontally with good light, the pin alignment is much easier to achieve that way. I have also thought about just making a line around the tube and relocating the bearing housing hole so it is a drill or mill guide that creates a new slot in the tube, which doesn't care where. Perhaps opposite, perhaps begun somewhat by an undersized carbide ball burr.

Nah, I've gone Neanderthal and take the pin to the grinding wheel and chamfer one end, locate the original passage, load the passage with Marine-Tex, drive the damned pin through and coat the ends with the same cure-all. Basic black-on-black. "There are many ways to skin a cat" or so the saying goes, albeit unmentionable around the house in which my wife's two cats allow us to live.

Speaking of Basic Black, I need to consult with Eric Wills. I have yet to encounter swing axle one-piece boots that are glossy, only CV joint boots that are urethane plastic....and come in colors, BTW. In this case, I'd need to order 2 examples from every vendor (including VW parts sources) that I could find or to whom I'd be referred and make my own decision of which is best. I'd hope what I could choose would be a dull black real rubber part as original to a 356. Unfortunately, we are expected to thank those who supply something, anything even 'close' to original....with fit being more important to the end user than finish in cases like this.

Bruce

[merbesfield]

Those solid boots are a pain, you will tear 20% of them. You do have to remove the tubes and re align the rear wheels. BUT if you soak them in boiled water for 20-30 minutes, smooth/polish the outside edge of the Axel tube with 400 Grit sand paper to remove burrs and then grease big end. They have to be Real HOT when stretching. I have a pair of 3/8" rods that are polished to stretch the rubber over the big end of the tube. I also turn the inside out first. Wear gloves the boot is hot and when you grab it it get hot on your finger tips.

HOT rubber and red grease and 2 foot rods are the trick.

LOL And you wonder why these cars are becoming a thing of the past! Wonder how many mechanics there are out there that know how to do this or similar tricks let alone even know what axel boots even are.

[Don C]

John,
I did the stretch method and it worked fine. See Dennis Wellner's post 1/2 way down this article:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27710
I'd dismantle the axle and housing as the last resort.

[AMP]

I disassembled mine to refinish and install the one piece boots. I also wanted to make sure nothing funny was going on where they were pressed together.

Made some "press apart" and "press back together" press mandrels from round aluminum bar stock.

I have done a few now and those tools worked on both disc brake and drum brake cars.

If anyone would like I can post a simple drawing for the mandrels. They will work on about any H frame press.

A finish option that looks original in color that I used is manganese phosphate followed by Teflon.
Its a common process and not hard to find a local coatings shop that does it. There are three shops within 10 miles of me. the build up is predictable. I did mask for Teflon the end of the tube that presses into the housing. The phosphate is on all the surfaces and does not change bearing clearances plus it holds oil well. Those that had the opportunity to hold an M14 know what manganese phosphate it. The M14 is a greenish color but the one these guys use is charcoal.

Yes they blast the parts but they are cleaned in the process. The one shop I have used does engine bearings and other internal parts, gear boxes, pistons etc.

Here its less expensive than powder paint and about as tough. Dirt and grease don't stick to it and can be easily wiped off.

Like Bruce I used new pins. The alignment for reassembly is not difficult at all (as noted in the earlier post). The process is hard to goof up.

I use this place and Scott is very good to deal with. They also have a plant in Indy.

http://www.kecocoatings.com/ (ask for Scott)

[bbspdstr]

Ashley, great info on the inner recoating. You likely can even give the shorthand element version of Manganese Phosphate....

Ah, the 'good old days'....I missed the full M-14, but had a Ruger Mini-14 later. Still a fun .223. The USAF handed me an M-16 as a formality and in basic, we got very limited time at the range but had live fire over our heads at the obstacle course. I mention those two activities because they were the best things we did in basic. Many went from basic to SP training. On OT-Hold after basic, I did some TDY at Hood in, of all things, sniper school, pulling targets. Those guys had some slightly more serious weaponry used by some very serious dudes! Being in a different OD uni, I wasn't 'allowed' to sit with them at chow.....

Thanks again for posting and perhaps if you have time, the mandrel drawings would be helpful to those who desire to do the presswork. I for one would like to see them to compare with those I (used to) use.

Slippery Bruce, (aka Mn3(PO4)2)

[John Pierce]

Decided to go with the solid axle boots so need to take apart axle tubes.



Axle tube assemblies with bearing holders as removed from my rust bucket.



First thing is to remove the groove pin.



Groove pin. I took a picture so I can install a new pin with the same orientation.



A large socket fit nicely in my press to remove the bearing holder.



Disassembled.



The outer bell had some deep scratches. Something got caught there at some point. The inner part of the bell also had some scratches.



The retainer also had some deep scratches.



The tube was media blasted to remove the rough scale and rust, while masking off the bell and upper finished pieces. The end holes were blocked off so media did not get into the tubes. I then washed out all of the old grease and oil in gasoline. Everything was scrubbed to ensure everything was clean. I then put the tube on my lathe to sand the pits on the shaft and also the deep scratches on the bell, using consecutive levels of grit up to 400.



The bearing housing was also media blasted with the holes plugged off. I will use filler in the pitting on the shaft before priming and painting. The scratches are still present, but there are no raised edges. Was wondering if people think that these pieces are still usable with the scratches or should I be looking for others?

Thanks.

John

[bbspdstr]

John,

Here's hoping we gets Jack's take on this, but my own experience is that those scratches can be something getting caught between the two surfaces of the bell and the one inner convex mate as part of the bearing-carrying side cover(s) from that but usually galling from low oil and/or improper gasketing for the side plate/axle tube bell clearance. Are there similar scratches in the convex aluminum shape of the side cover?

As the grooves on the bell will only hold more lubricant if used again, just be sure the metal that became the groove isn't still over the side of that valley and you should be fine.

If you want better tubes and maybe solid boot advice (in all ways) call Eric Wills at 703-266-1356.

Bruce

[AMP]

I had similar scratches. I got rid of high sides of the scratches and polished the side cover and axle tube bells with scotchbrite. Put them in a lathe to polish with a center in the tail stock.

I think when I assembled them I swapped the axle tubes side to side to put the scratched areas 180* from where they were before. They were only scratched on one side

[Don C]

I had the same scratches on my '65C. Like you guys, I took off the hi-spots, re-assembled, shimmed cover a little looser (+.005"?) and have 30,000 on it with no apparent problems. One suggestion: use some sort of sealer on the cover plate gaskets, I think I used Hylomar, or you'll probably develop leaks between the cover and housing, ask me how I know!

[AMP]

I made these out of aluminum which is not the ideal material but works for a few presses. Steel would be better. I just used scrap material on hand.

[bbspdstr]

Thank you, Ashley. My one tool made from Alu barstock looks very similar to one on your kind presentation.

I'm late here due to trying to get a nice resto of a Roadster down to Charlotte. Worked all week on details and when the owner came up with his trailer, a strange metallic noise began on a test drive. It would go away and then return, so we returned to my shop and I grabbed a stethoscope. He drove and I got the pick-up on the shift coupling and yep...it was internal.

The previous owner had the engine done by someone I know but it was unknown who, when, where the trans was done. Damn, I should have recommended the trans be done "just because", but was trying to save the man money on the project, so now it goes to Eric Wills in VA and he does whatever is necessary and it goes to Charlotte from there.

Damn those 716s.......

Bruce

[John Pierce]

I'm rebuilding my drum brakes and was hoping for advice regarding brake cylinders. There are at least 3 different brands of brake cylinders that can be bought with a large variance in price. There's the option of rebuilding the OEM brake cylinders with new sleeves. Do people recommend one brand over another or is it better to rebuild them?





Thanks.

John