SC Coupe Restoration

[tperazzo]

Thanks everyone for all the guidance and support with the mirrors. I really appreciate it and will check into it more. As Jack said there is probably a service bulletin with locations somewhere.

As I move down my to do list, I finally decided to tackle a tough one.

The passenger door lower skin and door bottom was replaced by me along time ago. Actually it was one of the first things I did because I couldn't stomach the bubbles anymore. The repair looks ok, but the door has an oil can to it. In other words if I push on it hard enough I make a dent that won't pop back on its own. Chris pointed this out to me and said it needs to be fixed.

I now know that I must have over hammered it way back when I was early on the learning curve. I'm still learning obviously. Worst case is to weld in a new lower section but I tried shrinking the skin with my TIG torch.

This is hard to take pictures of what is really going on because it's a touch and feel thing. Luckily I was able to make the skin tight as it should be. I did need to hammer some shrink distortions out but this time I was careful and more strategic with my hammer blows.

Here's some pictures showing the shrink marks and a long stick to check overall curvature and high and low spots.










It doesn't look any better but all the squishyness is gone and I'm much relieved.

Thanks again for everyone's help and following this thread. Next up is fitting the chrome bits to this door. Luckily I'm not running a mirror on this side!
Tom

[Jack Staggs]

Tom, IIRC, there exists a diagram somewhere that shows the preferred Durant mirror location by Porsche. For US delivery 356, DOT did not require fittment of outside rear view mirrors. In 1966, DOT mandated that EVERY car here have an outside mirror, something that the German TUV required years earlier! This may explain variation of location, and type of mirror, as many had to be retrofitted to meet the DOT directive, while others were mounted at random as an option at the dealership level or installed by owners when the cars were new. It is unfathomable to me that Porsche, well know for precision, just handed a drill to an assembly line worker, and told them to drill a couple holes wherever they wanted.
There is a appox 2" hole in the door jamb (but not on preA/early T1) just above and to the rear of the upper door hinge. That hole is called the mirror access hole. The mirror hardware should be easily accessible through that hole with simple hand tools for the driver side (optional passenger side mirrors have a completely different location!). Don's mirror is nowhere near there. In my opinion, a ill fitted mirror looks as bad as rear badging that's out of position. I HATE that (sorry Don)! Here is a link to a few pix of what i believe to be factory fit.

Sorry folks, wrong link. here is the correct one Scroll down a bit.:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21171

Please be aware that 356 Durant mirrors look just like the ones fitted to early 911/912, BUT the the mounting bolts on them can be different. Some 901 mirrors have a fixed stud near the leading edge of the mirror, with a single sliding bolt at the rear. 356 used TWO sliding bolts, with the forward sliding bolt more towards the the rear than the "fixed" stud. Installation of that 901 mirror on a 356 will result in a more rearward mounting position than the 356 one by an inch or so, if maintaining reasonable access through the door hole. If that is the case, simply cut off the offending stud, and fit an additional sliding bolt. Both mirrors have provision for two sliding bolts.
I'll try to take some measurements in the next few days of what I feel to be OG.
Oh, and thanks for the surprise package the other day, Tom. I really appreciate it.

[roy mawbey]

Tom,

The posts about your door mirror were interesting. I had no door mirror fitted to my car when I bought it in the 60's. AFN the Porsche agent still had some brand new Durant door mirrors so I bought one.

I remember two things about fitting it. The first one was movement so correctly mentioned by Bruce. I tried swivelling it before fitting and it seemed to have a positive 'stop' but actually it was a limited movement to what I imagined it should be. It therefore took me much time to drill the fixing holes. I had help whilst I sat in the car and someone held the mirror. I was around 5 foot eleven inches and the seat position was important to get right.

Some 12 years or so later I happened to knock hard the mirror with my arm. Would you believe the movement of arc then was almost double!! It swivelled so much more, important for you to check that!! I do not know why it increased.

The 2 holes you welded up were obviously not for a Durant but the photos I have for the other 356 mirror the Aero do look more likely. But they fitted 356A / early B only???

The distance from the edge of the rubber seal to the beginning of the door gap is 5 inches on my mirror and one and a half inches from the seal edge to the window chrome trim.

I attach a photo of the aero and one of my Durant.





Roy

[bbspdstr]

Don, I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't done that myself a month ago!

As for 'looks'.....I don't use feet away, I go MPH! As in "Looks good over 50" (MPH)...enough: Tom will find what's right for him as he is a perfectionist and ....... we are pirating his thread....so one more joke. "Mirrors are usually aimed at the Porsche driver so he can makes sure he looks good where he's going, not wasting time looking at where he's been."

Seriously, a 'vanity mirror' on the driver's side sun visor was originally available on the early 356s....makes ME go.....hummmm .....

[Don C]

Geez, I thought I had everyone fooled with my painted lock pivot!
Good catch Bruce! Remember, from 10ft away it's OK.

[bbspdstr]

You made me look at two original cars here and then remember that the majority of the mirrors were dealer installed. Those here are all over the place, so all one can say is that they are on the door....and in approximately in the same area....and an opposite side mirror is almost a waste of time for most drivers as far as practicality, but they are seen often enough, I guess for 'balance.'

Take into consideration that the driver may be 5'3" or 6'9". I always weld the holes closed and when all is assembled, make the mirror placement from the primary driver's input while in position to drive and held by another person while trial placement is done AND don't forget the mirror's adjustment limits. (Repro mirrors rarely have the latitude of movement of the originals in any mirror style.)

Tape is broadly placed on the new paint first, marks made on that when choice is finalized and drill through that tape (maybe a little oversized hole for tweaking), touch-up the paint in the hole, attach custom-positioned mirror. You do NOT have to go by what someone else did to be "original."

Don, I just did the same vent lock pivot treatment on a T-6B that was being sold....works well to hide the rust. The frames are brass so the chrome is long-lived.....but on steel? HA! Asking 50 years of those is asking a lot. Thankfully, the aftermarket stainless version is available if there is too much pitting to allow rechroming.

Lastly, I feel that the gap differences from point-to-point and car to car on the later model C...is that the new models were out and they weren't so intense with the QC...."just get 'em done." The earlier lids were much more uniform and I've seen high rust-throughs on more T-6 lids and few on pre-T-6 lids. That should be taken as to lacking QC as well.

Just personal observations and opinions,

Bruce

[Don C]

Tom,
Here's the location on my "C". If adjusted correctly they actually work.

[Jack Staggs]

Tom, those old welded up hole look close , but not quite right. The tilted yellow one, no.

[JOP]

Tom,
This is Road Schoolars Cab borrowed of the web to help you out
I wont have time to check on my own today
But the base seems to follow a straight line ( not the holes...) as the rest of the body !
Cheerio
JOP

[JTR70]

Would have to get an official ruling from Jack, Bruce or someone with an originally placed mirror but if the yellow one is correct in your photo then there appears to be a slight tilt downward at the front where you appear to have yours mocked up at perfectly horizontal...

[tperazzo]

Wow! Thank you Jack for pointing this out. I should have questioned the location of the mirror since there were two other holes welded up.

First thing was to remove the wrong holes as I plan on installing the standard Durant mirror.

Seems wrong, but I open the holes up to 1/2" and then make a sheet metal plug as opposed to trying to fill the hole with weld.




Gotta be quick before the tape starts to melt of catch fire.

These are probably the correct holes.



Here are the dimensions.



I searched for accurate information as to where the holes should be, but many of these were apparently just eye balled by the dealer.

Here's a Car I found with the same mirror.






The mirror has some adjustment forward and back due to the way the hardware fits the mirror base.


At least
this time I used a crash pad. See, I'm learning something Jack.



Please let me know if this mirror location is good.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Tom

[JTR70]

Great catch Jack, and before final paint too!
You're not done welding yet Tom.

[Jack Staggs]

Those exterior mirror holes on the door do not appear to be anywhere near factory location for any mirror offered by Porsche for your car.

[JTR70]

Tom, you are right where I was a few years back with my car.

I know yours are original to your car but I purchased a restored set of frames and sold my originals assuming they were all the same. I quickly found out they were not. The new ones rubbed the roof and like yours did not follow the opening consistently enough for my liking. Fortunately I had accumulated several frames so I was able to put together a pair that fit nice. Most of them I found where too flat in profile in the middle. I still need to have them chromed...about a grand to redo I'm thinking. Live and learn.
So wise of you to do this before paint. Nice work as always!
Justin

[tperazzo]

More bad fitment news here. I remember back in the days when I used to drive my car versus working on it, that the drivers window frame rubbed the B pillar and was loose and rattled.







The gap is way too wide at the front wind wing and touching the b pillar. It was beyond the range of adjustment as far as I could tell, so I disassembled things to see where it was bent or needs to be bent. I also had to repair all the broken attachment screws so it won't rattle anymore.




It seems that the front diagonal portion isn't straight.

I dreamed up some careful fixturing that would help true this up, but I went very low tech instead.



Hardwood was used inside the window channel to prevent the sidewalls from buckling in.

Here's another "bending die" for a different spot.



There's one more tweak I want to make but I just ran out of time. The fit is now much better though.







As always I'm open to tips and tricks to improve the frame fit. My plan is to get it as close as possible without rubber and then try again with rubber.

I also need to shift the 1/4 round weatherstrip trim back. That's my fault for drilling the holes in the wrong place, so I will need to redo.
Many thanks,
Tom