356 slow cranking starter

[bbspdstr]

[MMW]

I feel stupid but when I pulled the ground off as Roy did I saw what looked like a washer but upon tapping it with a hammer & screwdriver it did not move so I assumed it was part of the threaded insert/nut that the ground strap bolted to. I cleaned the top of it a few times also as Roy did too. Now I know I need to remove it no matter how stuck it is. I will report back when I get it done.

I wonder how many other people have not figured it out as I have never seen this little washer mentioned in any other thread. Must be more than mine & Roy"s that are seemingly welded together by age. Excitedly hoping mine shows the same results as Roy's did.

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

Thanks so much for all your comments, it is so easy to assume you have done a good job when the main problem is sitting below a washer you should have thought more about.

SJ is correct the brass bolt Mic needs wire brushing on the threads and the captive nut was full of ' crud ' and as SJ pointed out it needs careful cleaning. I had a 6mm tap which I did try but it was difficult to get a tap wrench on because of clearance. I dosed the captive nut with electrical contact cleaner and ran a bolt up and down till I could see the internal thread was clean.

Yesterday I continued my yearly grease up and looked at the transmission - chassis earth. Why? because I wondered if the small 30mm thin square plate the earth strap is connected to ( again a captive nut ) was stuck like the one by the battery and might have a dirt on the other side.

But... This plate is neatly soldered to the rear sheet metal. I exposed the solder all round it! As you will remember I mentioned seeing what seemed like lead or solder on the front washer I knocked off. I can advise I think the guy doing the front might have put a dap here or there but certainly not all round that offending washer!

So Mic, if necessary go round the circumference to remove it. then hit it!
I see now hundreds of 356 cars living in wet countries with rusty battery box sheet metal allowing water to get under the washer in the front and unsuspecting owners thinking the same as me and Mic but not those like SJ who thought ahead!! Bruce, all your comments are correct it could well be Mic might not resolve his problem at all or for that matter others who try.

The dimming lights gave me a real firm idea about the obvious poor ground somewhere on the system. My friend also advised me why not put a jumper wire from the top of the brass bolt to a clean chassis ground. Maybe? a good idea if you have lights that really dim on start up?

Justin and all those who have changed the sheet metal on the battery box and the rear bulkhead have you placed captive nuts ready for earth points?

Cheers all,

Roy

[MMW]

Edit - After posting I went back & looked at Roy"s pictures again. Maybe his was soldered also but not very well. Seeing the rust which is closer to the center of the washer I am thinking I should definitely remove mine just to have a look underneath it? I wonder if I could remove it without heat? I'll think about that.

I guess my saga shall continue. After work I took the spare tire out & removed the battery cover to expose the ground cable. Gave it a few quick hits with a hammer & screwdriver but it would not come off. Hit it harder & I realize that it is solid. I start chipping & scraping around it & mine is soldered on just like the square plate next to the transmission. I sanded all the solder off the top of the washer, cleaned around it & can't find any openings or signs of rust. I did run a tap through it by using a 1/4" wrench on the tap but it went through easily. At this point I put it back together headed in for dinner without trying to start it. I am not expecting any changes. I have a what appears to be a brass bolt, lock washer, flat washer, ground strap & the the soldered on washer which is brass. Maybe I should unsolder it but then I would want to do the trans one also. That will be a last resort only if I run jumper ground straps & it makes a big difference.

Maybe it will be different but I remember doing Roy's test last week of starting with the lights on & they did not dim very much at all.

As I am starting.



After removal of cable.



After scraping.



After sanding the solder off the top of the washer.

[roy mawbey]

Mic,

Interesting and good photos! The person who soldered my washer on by the battery, for certain did not do the full job at all. I reckon 2 dabs 180 degree apart. I only found 2 small deposits of solder the rest of the circumference was untouched. The transmission to chassis earthing was a perfect job I tried to knock it off it would not move without heat.

If your lights did not dim to virtually nothing when cranking but stayed quite bright then your earthing is probably good. I can really say after another run out today I can stop anywhere and it will restart hot without problem.

One tip you probably already know, with the engine hot to restart it always depress the accelerator to the floor then crank it.

You could try my friends possible tip of using putting a crocodile clip from a battery jumper to the brass bolt and then to chassis on both battery grounding points to see what happens?

You only have to lose a a couple of volts and you have the problem. SJ is correct along with Bruce 12v can help for sure but, you are like me they sold over 40,000 at 6v and it should work if all components are good.

Best of luck, I have had some luck for sure!

Roy

[JTR70]

"Justin and all those who have changed the sheet metal on the battery box and the rear bulkhead have you placed captive nuts ready for earth points?

Cheers all,

Roy"


Roy, I've ordered about 4 replacement battery floors and they all had the captive nut installed

With the spacer washer welded to the inside.


When I fabbed up my own partial floor for my third and final attempt at repair on my coupe I had it mounted pre-installation.

Going by all the repro floors I welded a spacer washer in as well. Looking at Mic's photos it makes more sense that this washer would have been soldered into place instead... Always learning.
I plan to have this strap attachment thoroughly caked in grease at all times to inhibit any corrosion. Insightful thread you guys. Thank you!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Perfect Justin, you will not be worrying about losing some voltage there!

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Mic,

I presume? because you have checked as far as possible the earthing which seems good, you still have slow cranking when hot? Have you tried anything else? I do wonder if the field windings in your motor are really good? I can still trust my car to start now okay but still wonder just how fast a 356 6v starter can operate under starting load.

I know my starter speed does not compare to my 12v BMW but it would be interesting to know if that has always been the case. In my minds eye in the 1960's when I turned the key it was always fast but..is that a pipe dream?? I suppose I should be pleased I can always start it but after that bad earthing of mine I realise a small problem in the starting system makes such a difference to its power.

Hope you solved it.

Roy

[MMW]