A newly discovered dream find speedster project!

[speedykiwi]

The last bid was I think $89100.

Without knowing all the facts we can only speculate on what happened.

The listing had the hallmarks that the vendor may have been the owner for 42 years. It doesn't seem plausible that a flipper would have only 5 stars from ebay - a couple for mundane purchases. If this was the case the vendor as an inexperienced ebay user may not have known that all the action was going to take place in the last half hour of the auction. (And it would have with new bidders coming all the time and huge number of viewers).

A flipper of course would know all of this and be doing all they can to talk the vendor into delisting early. We will know soon enough if this is what happened. (if so it will be interesting to see if the brakes are on it then - and possibly LSD trans).

Whether a flipper or a private party I guess this doesn't sit well with me because there is high potential that the vendor was deceived. The car is already out there and is going to sell for market value within 16hrs. The purchaser due to their knowledge has in essence deprived the vendor of receiving the true value and is unlikely to have offered more than they perceive the market to be - (not mention aggravating a bunch of potential purchasers).

Whats market? - I never got the opportunity to bid due to the early withdrawal but if someone wanted it as much as me at least $120k. I think the last Speedster project on ebay sold for $97k with matching motor. That was about two years ago and the market has moved significantly since then. The two prior to that were less money but also much "bigger" projects.

Hijacking a sale like this is in my opinion unethical. It is a different scenario to advertising, digging through barns using contacts and reputation, looking for cars or parts to purchase and bringing them to the market which I have no problem with.

Just my 2c worth

[MMW]

Although I asked what was wrong with flipping & making a buck I don't agree with ending the auction early by the seller. Most likely due to the buyer pushing him to do so.

I would think that a lot of the bidders would be hoping to resell it as is or restore it & then sell it. All looking to make a profit from it. I may be wrong but I assume very few would be into buying it, fixing it & driving it with no intention of making money on it.

Just my opinion.

[Carrera_The_Kid]

I may be wrong but I assume very few would be into buying it, fixing it & driving it with no intention of making money on it.

All I will say is that this hobby was a lot more fun when people had just that approach.

[Erik H]

Be it business, politics, or love, when a lot of money is involved, ethics go out the window. On an auction like this one there are no rules. Someone probably contacted the seller, offered him stupid money and that was that. This auction had 43,000 views. Recently I have seen auctions for nice coupes and cabs with less than 500 views. I am one of the fortunate few that already has a Speedster. I wish the "hobby" could be affordable like it was 25 years ago but at the same time I hope Speedsters hit a million dollars. Erik

[roy mawbey]

[Steve Heinrichs]

Joris,

You are correct, for sure.

That said, the really troubling part is when hobby 'leaders' take advantage of those not-quite-in-the-know and acquire cars from them.

I believe in much more transparency for our hobby and, as well, far fewer misrepresentations and recreations.

Hey--that's part, at least, why I do what I do.

Steve Heinrichs

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Steve,

In all markets there is always some form of a-symmetric information (Hi Chicago) Our hobby is no different.

I am also aware of some people who have "inside" information allowing them to pick out the special cars more easily. They will probably tell you it is rightly theirs as it took them lots of effort to acquire this information.

My biggest concern is that with the increase in values of the cars the incentive for "dodgy" behavior will just increase. This helps nobody.

Transparency is a good thing. Us young internet folks grew up with it. If online has done one thing it is to bring transparency and decrease the amount of a-symmetric information. Not everybody likes this apparently..

[bbspdstr]

In the '60s, I was a 'flipper'....'cause I needed the money for college.

My first Speedster was an unintended trade for my Bugeye Sprite. When I first held out, the guy offered me $50 AND the Speedster and subtly, the lightbulb went on.

Back then, there were many Speedsters being sold and most were in the $500 range. I would buy one with the money from a sale after paying for rent, phone and ....beer.....and then get friends and art school roommates to help do some light bodywork, mask and paint the car all one color with a case of aerosol Krylon...paying them with....beer....and resell it for maybe $675, and start the process all over again.

Our 'inside information' was word-of-mouth or a newspaper. A lot of stink was made about 'Classifieds' people at Pano and elsewhere 'cherry picking' before anyone else saw what was to be published. Why else, we thought, would anyone want that job, anyway?

As said previously, it's natural that the higher someone goes up in a car club, magazine or any car-related entity, the more likely somewhat naive people will gravitate to them for 'advice.'

For instance; A few years ago, a one-owner 4-cam A Coupe was sold not too far from me. It had belonged to an heir of a very prominent family. I did some significant 356 (and other Porsche work) for a nearby cousin within that well-known family, knew of the 4-cam car and yet read about the car in a 'well-known' 356 publication just after it was bought by...... (I'll stop here, as it may just be coincidence rather than one little high-up elf telling another little high-up elf...but I think not.) Point is, I would have liked to have had a shot at finding that nice little 356 a 'proper' new home, closer.

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Bruce,

I am aware of this car very well. I actually own a substantial amount of pictures detailing its originality.

I believe that the current owner paid well above what many experts thought the car was worth at the time. As such I do not believe that he got a great deal at the time.

The owner has been more than kind when it comes to taking pictures and answering originality questions. I believe it ended up with a proper home

[merbesfield]

Bruce,

I am aware of this car very well. I actually own a substantial amount of pictures detailing its originality.

I believe that the current owner paid well above what many experts thought the car was worth at the time. As such I do not believe that he got a great deal at the time.

The owner has been more than kind when it comes to taking pictures and answering originality questions. I believe it ended up with a proper home

Joris, what does the new owner have planned and will we ever see this car in pics or shows? Thanks, Mark

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Mark,

The "new" owner (he has already had the car for well over five years) as far as I know plans to keep the car in the very original state it is currently (thank god for that) I believe the car has already been shown at several shows including Steve's more than excellent Race Car Classic, and that the owner will continue to show it. It would not surprise me if it was out at Dana Point this last weekend.

Seriously, the owner values authenticity and shows the car, what more can you ask for. In my mind the car has found a perfect custodian

[Restomod]

??? I must have missed something....How has the "New" owener already had the car 5 years???? Do you meant the ebay seller? Im lost..........

[Carrera_The_Kid]

I am talking about the 4-cam coupe Bruce mentioned in his post not the speedster

[JTR70]

Was this the "DuPont" Carrera coupe that Chuck House bought?

[bbspdstr]

I will let Joris reveal the current(?) owner if he wishes.

I also think the money paid then now looks like a 'good investment.'

Yes, 'the owner' (is he still the current owner of that 4-cam A cpe?) has a fetish for originality and shares that information easily... and years ago, I too was a grateful recipient of that generosity. Then again, I miss that which I would receive from the late Alex Bivens and others who have verified as closely as we can to what was "original" for a 356.

That ability is fading fast. Enough (of that sentimentality) is Enough......

However, I'll close with an old saying that may apply: "You never pay too much, sometimes you just sell too soon."