Radio Free Registry

[356JAGER]

Jack, You're talking apples and oranges here. Everyone wants an all inclusive group of 356 folks. What is being objected to is the operation of the club in violation of the laws under which it is governed and the 'exclusive' position that the trustees and the publisher have provided for themselves at member expense and in a veil of secrecy that is not permitted under the law. This has been made clear multiple times, both here and in the courts. When the trustees get the club in line with the rules, we can all get back to the cars and move past this stuff. Throwing members out of the club for requesting what is theirs to request was the start of all of this and until rectified, it won't go away. So check me down for approving the part of your post about inclusion, but talk to the trustees and their supporters when you talk about exclusion. That was their choice.

[bbspdstr]

Retaliation against retaliation? How did we get HERE?

The gripe by a few with the way the Registry was being run by a few began long before the Heinrichs lawsuit.

Long before any of us interested in Club Business actually knew the applicable laws, "appearances" begat questions, questions were ignored or deflected, Steve pressed, the can of worms opened and that can being dragged through the sand made a deeper, wider line...and here we are, all of us in the small minority. How's that for a summary?

For quite a while, I have noted how others with whom I spoke directly about Registry 'politics' reacted when the subject came up. Most were totally unaware of anything other than Still waters and most, once my own toot began, simply and politely, turned off the sound.

"A new club"? My own impression has been that adding to Justin's site would be a good alternative if expanded beyond the proselytizing for Registry reform. Tech and Tall Tales plus wonderful pictures of all things early Porsche are my personal favorites. I personally don't have much time for more than three dimensional Porsches and keep thinking how "if it's not FUN, what am I doing this for?"

Otherwise, merely reporting the unfolding drama in the Registry and posting suggestions for betterment in that club would be more 'inclusive' and less cause for comments about "same old, same old."
I.e.- in my type of business, I would be nuts to 'bad mouth' a competitor to get work and better off simply saying what I can do for a 356er or other Porsche aficionado and let them decide.

In my business, EVERY customer is #1. I cannot believe a car club 'leader' would not at least act in the same way.

I did post recently that I would not jump back into this discussion, but here's a tidbit for our overseas brethren; wouldn't you like to get more timely magazines and/or posting 'privileges' for LESS money? Shouldn't an online-only membership for a discounted fee be allowed for open discussion and consideration? Sure, anyone may write to a trustee...go ahead, see what any one or all of them say. Maybe by now one or all of them will realize they should at least acknowledge you with a "We'll look into that." Here's a question about that; what would you suppose the reluctance to that proposal would be?

I think this is where the chance was lost when those like Sebastien ventured over here to poke around. Asking simple questions such as "Does anyone think the trustees shouldn't have to obey the laws and regulations governing a club like the Registry?" Then, that affords an answer of 'yes' or 'no' and if no answer, it becomes clear who stands on which side of the nasty line drawn in the sand so many heads are stuck in.

Above all, support Justin here in a positive way, please!

[356JAGER]

New offshoot club formed. Anyone welcome to join. No fees, no rules:
(You do have to pay your dues)

[MMW]

My latest suggestion is to open the classified so non-members can reply to sellers. You can keep the sellers to members only but all buyers should be welcomed.

[356JAGER]

Mic,
I think both should be open, but then the 'freeloaders' would have access to the goodies. (Forget that the 'freeloaders' might have something of value to offer)

[Jack Staggs]

Both good suggestions you guys. An alternative could be to open the posting of "for sale" classifieds to anyone and restrict contact info to members first, (after all, it is a membership club) then open to anyone after a period of time, say 3 or 5 days (?). I figure that folks that pay up should get first crack at the great deals.

[356JAGER]

Just being the devil's advocate here, but if I don't have equal access to buying and selling what's the upside for me posting there ? I can do it free here and on other venues, and have the same audience as more than a few already regularly visit here and elsewhere. You want to subscribe to the magazine, great, pay your dues and get your fix, but the public persona of an organization, especially a not-for- profit, should be an open portal to all, welcoming and not a barrier to those with this disease.

[bbspdstr]

For reference, we 356ers have come a long way concerning classified ads. How many remember the fussing about those 'volunteers' who received the ads to 'edit' them for the magazines in which those ads would appear and how those editors would get accused of 'cherry-picking' the goodies before they went to print? Who remembers being jealous of the timing for the mail being better for some regions than others and feeling 'cheated' of fist picks and calls?

Still, that method worked for me in the early days. My best-ever Speedster was sold by "rumor,' locally, before it got to be printed in Pano (pre-Registry, the early '70s) with no subsequent calls from that ad (would be unbelievable today!)...and all my 356 racing exotica did get sold to Chuck Forge in CA in crates, en masse. Clean deals, both.

I'm still pushing for a multi-tiered membership for the Registry as we oldsters stumble into the digital age, leveling the playing field for 356ers around the world. Buy/sell ads would be accessible as they are on most sites; immediately. An access fee is fine, higher if you still want the print magazine, lower if you want the on-line version of the same magazine and least if you just want to post and/or use the classifieds.

For some reason... ...the Registry is slow on the up-take. And I'm posting that on Justin's site, thank you. (where's that lightbulb icon?)

-Bruce

[Bill Sampson]

I posted the following "poll questions" on the Registry forum on April 8, 2011, just over three years ago. The first five remain current, the last two are now history.

1. Should Trustee meetings be open to the membership? Any limitations for those in favor?

2. Should the minutes of trustee meetings be published? Any limitations for those in favor?

3. Should the books of account be done on a computer as opposed to by hand on columnar paper as is now the case?

4. Should the books and records of the Registry be available to members as is required by Ohio law unless the Trustees show an improper or unreasonable purpose for the member's viewing?

5. Should we have trustee and/or officer term limits? If so, for how long or how many terms?

6. Are you in favor of a trustee renting a car for $600 for a weekend trustee meeting as recently happened?

7. How many, if any, trustees should we pay for to attend a meeting in South Africa?

I have intentionally refrained from posting my own opinions at this point but would like to know yours. I'll post mine if anyone is interested in the future. Personal attacks on the trustees should not be made - they donate their time to us regardless of what anyone may think of present policies, whether praiseworthy or otherwise. If you simply must attack the author of this post for his all too numerous and obvious shortcomings please humor the moderator and send them to my email rather than bludgeoning the other members with an enumeration of those personal failings here. Please concentrate on the questions posed. Thanks.

[DG58INNM]

Bill, I remember when you posted this. I thought they were excellent questions then, and still do. I posted my answers at the time, and just for the heck of it, I'll do so again.

1. Should Trustee meetings be open to the membership? Any limitations for those in favor?

Yes, no limitations, and I have yet to hear any realistic reason to think otherwise. Recognizing that there could on rare occasion be matters sensitive for privacy or other reasons, executive sessions could be employed, though these should be rare for a car club, should be noted in advance on agendas, and should be strictly limited to a particular item.

2. Should the minutes of trustee meetings be published? Any limitations for those in favor?

Yes, same as above.

3. Should the books of account be done on a computer as opposed to by hand on columnar paper as is now the case?

The quality of the accounting is what matters, not the recording tools. While its common and popular now to use computers for this purpose, bookkeepers have kept precise and impeccable records for thousands of years with pen and paper (or papyrus, or palm leaves, or rocks). I'm OK either way, as long as the policy of question#4 below is followed

4. Should the books and records of the Registry be available to members as is required by Ohio law unless the Trustees show an improper or unreasonable purpose for the member's viewing?

Yes. It appears that such is required by Ohio law, but even if it were not a requirement, it would appear to be a good practice. In a fellowship organization such as this, whose purpose does not include making a profit, why would it ever be otherwise?

5. Should we have trustee and/or officer term limits? If so, for how long or how many terms?

This is a difficult one. I philosophically tend to think No, there should not be term limits. It would just be good form to volunteer for a while, then step down. Ideally it should be self-regulating. But in practice there seems to be a tendency for those elected to just stay forever. The electoral system is naturally going to favor incumbents (name recognition is inherent). So realistically, maybe Yes. Two terms seems right to me.

6. Are you in favor of a trustee renting a car for $600 for a weekend trustee meeting as recently happened?

It depends on the circumstance. It would be reasonable to require an explanation if it happened. Trustees should reasonably expect to be reimbursed for their expenses while on club business. At the same time they have an obligation to be as frugal as reasonably possible when generating those expenses. In the specific case referenced I believe the trustee offered an explanation that seemed reasonable to me. Having once stepped off a plane in New Orleans and gone to the rental counter, just as I had done a dozen times over the previous two years to get a $40 car, and found the rate suddenly $400, I can sympathize. It was foolish of me not to realize in advance that it was Mardi Gras, but it was an honest mistake.

7. How many, if any, trustees should we pay for to attend a meeting in South Africa?

Again, a difficult question, and depends on the circumstance. A case may reasonably be made that the club should send a representative to such a meeting. I cannot see any justification for sending more than one, and three was clearly excessive. With as large a club as we have, it seems probable that at least one Registry member is likely planning to attend any international event likely to come up. My suggestion would be to set up a process where the club could designate an official representative from out of the list of names planning to attend, and possibly offer an honorarium (not minor, but not the full cost of attending either). It should go to a different member every time, unless a repeat was the only option. It could be fun, and a bit of an honor, to be that designee which might encourage more of our members to plan to attend international events.

Ah well, I suppose we've talked this all to death over the past couple of years. These are my opinions. Yours may be different.

Take care,
DG

[Bill Sampson]

Dave:

I actually thought of including your remarks from back then but decided just to post the questions, for better or worse. Yours was one of the more reasoned responses, that's for sure. I'm interested in what people believe has changed (or has not). And, of course, why or why not?

Best wishes


Bill

[MMW]

Two interesting discussions I had at Hershey. Not really anything to do with the registry per say but with attitudes.

First from one of teeners I was out with Friday night. He wanted to know what I was doing hanging out with them, "usually 356 guys won't even talk to us". The issue is basically 914s get no respect & 356 guys are snobbish. How to change this? These are younger Porsche enthusiasts who should be welcomed (the next generation). They all love 356s but are put off by the attitudes sometimes given off by their owners. I know it is generalizing but still a perception. I actually like hanging with both crowds.

Second one from someone older than me who has a 356 & is retired. He was talking about as the current 356 owners die off most times their kids want nothing to do with the cars. The spouses/family just unload them to a dealer or a friend. The cars are like "children" to the owners but they never make a plan on who should get them when they die. Sometimes they get put under wraps & not used or enjoyed.

Some of these cars are over restored & are so nice they don't get driven. Even if they were passed down or sold to the next generation what 50 yr. old would want a car they are afraid to drive? Also what fun is it to show your car off but then not let people touch & feel? One ride is usually all it takes to hook them. I can't tell you how surprised people are when I tell them they can open the door & sit in it.

No answers here just passing along some comments.

[bbspdstr]

Mic wrote:"Two interesting discussions I had at Hershey. Not really anything to do with the registry per say but with attitudes."

I must say that while I had many, many, great discussions at Hershey this past Saturday.....NONE concerned the Registry! There were mentions that "the crowd seemed a little different" but the most common comments concerned the perfect weather! I heard; "Are we really at Hershey????"

Smiles, handshakes and no faces I didn't want to see among the wonderful cars and parts I did want to see mixed with the great weather...doesn't get any better than that...anywhere.

There were the ubiquitous Registry hats, shirts and emblems but to my great relief, not a word about the organization. Just the people and the cars.....and at the meet itself, I sensed no 'bad vibes' or 'attitudes.'

I spent more time in the car show than ever before and saw Mic's 356, but I also spent a lot of time with two estate cars being sold, one a 356, at the other side of the huge lot. It was of interest that a man, already with two pristine 356s, who has three teen children was interested in the 356 I was representing for his middle daughter so each would have a 356 of their own "someday." The two the man has now were for him and his wife TO DRIVE, well before children, so the kids grew up thinking them very 'normal' (or maybe 'super'? )

The great 'small world' aspect of meets like Hershey is exemplified by the fact that in conversation with this man, his previous 356 purchases were from a man I know in Holland, the head (or former head) of the 356 Club over there, Henne Lembeck. Unfortunately, I haven't seen Henne in about 3 decades, but apparently he is still going strong.

I did hear a man (whose name I regrettably do not remember) gleefully say how much he likes "abcgt.com" and how much he is learning from this great site.

Mic, I am sorry I did not see you to say 'hi' as well. We could have commiserated on how Capitalism has tragically made our A Coupes worth about (10) 914s now and how cool it would be to possess a time machine........

-Bruce

[Phil Planck]

Bruce
Thanks for the Hershey report. It's been on my bucket list too long.
Phil

[bbspdstr]

Mic also wrote; "Second one from someone older than me who has a 356 & is retired. He was talking about as the current 356 owners die off most times their kids want nothing to do with the cars. The spouses/family just unload them to a dealer or a friend. The cars are like "children" to the owners but they never make a plan on who should get them when they die. Sometimes they get put under wraps & not used or enjoyed."

The 356 (and original owner) SWB 911 I was asked to represent were offered to the offspring first and extended family second, but all passed on the offer due to the busy lives and expense of maintenance if given to a professional as the cars age and parts and labor escalate. They were conscious personal decisions made after growing up with "Dad's cars" and even naming the Porsches as children. (The D was named "The Sieve" for the obvious trait of rain or wash water leaking in and immediately out through the floor.) They had their time with the cars and now did not have the time to enjoy them, to drive them, as when they were young. Time does often change things we can't override and reality can be a bitch.

Those 2 Porsches need to go to what the widow now insists be a "good home, where they will be appreciated," and they will...just a slightly more affluent home than the many more where they could have gone a few decades ago. That's a discussion with no end, but I did hear at Hershey several people mention the word "bubble."

I happen to also know that many other friends and customers have their 356s in their wills for their kids. Time will tell if the heirs will enjoy the cars like their parents did or just blow them out for the cash, like many farmer's children do, selling their inherited land to a developer. Both farms and old cars can be a LOT of work!

-Bruce