Radio Free Registry

[bbspdstr]

Jerry, you wrote: "So, a small group of 356 enthusiasts hosted a popular, well run event with no Registry money or name attached to it . . . "

To me this inferred a very strong statement against the Registry, and indicated that there was no connection or assistance to the event from The Registry.

I originally posted what I was told or what I knew. Did the R-club give money to the independent event or is helping to secure event insurance that was paid for by that event a synonymous contribution? Was the R-name shown as a sponsor? I don't know....I wasn't there, didn't look at the website more than once in the beginning to see that my sponsorship was noted and knew that I could not attend for a myriad of timing conflicts.... but honestly, I likely would not have offered sponsorship to that event had I known by being told that the Registry was in any way attached to the latest event.

How you got any "attack" from what either of us posted is beyond me. I took no inkling from your words and upon re-reading, my own that I had no "attack" on you...or Bobby B. or Tallman...none of your various personalities.....just disagreements or the need or desire to 'set things straight.'

BTW, I got George's rebuttal before I looked at this site to see your posting. There was no 'research' involved.....I am NOT retired and oughta be out in my shop and NOT dealing with the absolutely frustrating politics of a silly car club. Life is too short.
You?

[Carrera GT]

I was merely attempting to correct the facts which were perhaps unintentionally distorted, that placed a poor light on the Registry in the face of viewers of this forum.

Dear whatever delusional hiding name-person you are - maybe if you used your same written criteria above at the Registry site there might be some revealing of very simple truth.

Give it a try Jerry? - Regarding the current Ohio State Court Judgement Entry against the Registry: Please attempt as you say: "to correct the facts which were perhaps unintentionally distorted, that placed a poor light on the Registry in the face of viewers of this forum."

"Perhaps" You Jerry? might gain some admiration, and a bit more respect here from these viewers and with the Ohio Justices if you did.

Michael Doyle

[MMW]

To go off topic a minute, why would there need to be event coverage insurance? I would think each owner has their car insured as well as health/medical insurance & the hotel would have their own insurance to cover anything that happened on the grounds. Can someone give me an example of why it would be needed? I'm just curious.

[356JAGER]

DELETED

[Bill Sampson]

To go off topic a minute, why would there need to be event coverage insurance?

There are a couple of reasons, based upon my experience both as a local event organizer and as a board member of a national car club and, many years ago, as an insurance defense lawyer:

1. Liability coverage for the local club itself. Generally this is included in the policy covering the national club and there is no additional charge. Local events are specifically covered (although not for driving accidents). If a tent blows over and damages a car or strikes a child, or someone trips over an improperly attached guy wire or is injured by an improperly grounded wire the general liability policy would usually apply. No additional request is needed - the coverage belongs to the club. In the case of the Registry, it has NO local affiliates so the agent may need to be contacted, although it appears the Registry board claimed an affiliation so maybe the agent contact was not needed.

2. If a club event is held at a school, park, hotel, restaurant, etc. the owner of the facility frequently requests a certificate of insurance. These are routinely supplied by the carrier upon telephonic request with the certificate emailed or faxed, usually within minutes. This is generally done at no charge.

Sometimes, depending upon the carrier and upon the competence of the club's insurance person, there is a charge. With a competent insurance person at the national club level there is almost never a need for an additional premium. Policies can differ, but, I hope I have answered your question and have done so based upon my personal experiences. In the case of the Helen event I have no knowledge as to the policy(ies) in question but given their high annual cost and what was apparently an extra charge for that event, I would suggest discussing another agent/carrier. Since I have no personal knowledge of what transpired, please take the above as a suggestion to save money and aggravation in the future and not as an attack on any person or entity.

I know of NO carrier in such circumstances that would provide insurance to the club for damages caused by people driving their cars. That insurance is typically left to the individual automobile owners to supply; in my experience - always.


Bill

[MMW]

Joel as I read the post from George, Jim Liberty assisted them with insuring the event by going through the Registry insurance & the amount that was paid went directly to the carrier not the Registry.

Bill, So I take it that the liability coverage would go into effect for anything that is not covered by either the car owners insurance (both auto & personal) & the place holding the events insurance. I get the tent example as it wouldn't be the hotels fault or the owner of the damaged car but would be the event organizers liability as they set up the tent. Yes?

My question really wasn't about this specific event just events overall. Thanks for educating me.

[356JAGER]

DELETED

[JTR70]

Just an FYI: Robert Bosch requested that thier account be terminated.

[356JAGER]

DELETED

[Bill Sampson]

Bill, So I take it that the liability coverage would go into effect for anything that is not covered by either the car owners insurance (both auto & personal) & the place holding the events insurance. I get the tent example as it wouldn't be the hotels fault or the owner of the damaged car but would be the event organizers liability as they set up the tent. Yes? My question really wasn't about this specific event just events overall. Thanks for educating me.

You've pretty much got it Mic. However, most event locales want the renter's insurance to be primary over their own. That's the big deal on events usually, getting the certificate in favor of, for example, the park or hotel. Usually the existing liability policy already applies but the owner wants the user's insurance in case something happens where insurance would be involved. I'm mystified by the way as to why Helen cost anything, but, some carriers might have a small charge for issuing the certificate. If the national carrier for the club on which I'm on the board charged extra simply because one of our local clubs held an event we'd shop for another carrier I am sure.

[MMW]

Bill Sampson wrote -- "I'm mystified by the way as to why Helen cost anything, but, some carriers might have a small charge for issuing the certificate."

As I understand it the event in Helen was put on by the "Gang of Three" (three individuals) & not by the Registry or by a local/regional club/group of the Registry. So they would have had to get their own event insurance.

Thank you to the "Gang" for putting on the event. Even though I did not participate I think it is cool what you guys did.

[Bill Sampson]

Mic:

I'll place in quotes what Bruce Baker earlier quoted from George Bryan's message direct to Bruce.

"Although we priced event insurance separately from different carriers, we found the Registry umbrella coverage was a better price. All organizers were club members and we felt using this option was a better use of funds we were managing and trusted with as it was less expensive and provided a reasonably high quality coverage for both us and attendees. A check was written from us to the carrier as is the procedure; and the club often pays the event insurance. . . ." Go back a few posts for the full quote.

The Helen event did use the Registry insurance although it seemed it was not a Registry event. Given the ostensible purposes of a national club I remain mystified that the carrier charged extra for a pretty typical car club (albeit not for the Registry) event. My suggestions to shop for insurance stands. In six years on the national board of another club neither national nor local clubs were ever charged extra for the numerous events held. Our insurance cost, on a pro rata per member computation is very similar to the Registry's. Our very experienced and competent insurance guy (a member) may be the reason.


Bill

[S.J.Szabo]

realIt is also amazing and amusing to me that certain posters to this site are so pre-occupied and threatened by the use of a mysterious and obviously fabricated username.pre-occupied

[bbspdstr]

Mr. Szabo wrote:

.....to the spirit of the participants....

That word, 'spirit' struck a chord.....THAT's what's been missing from the Registry! There is 'spirit' here and I'm sorry Jerry quit this venue...and as a fellow supporter of the Registry, he showed some spirit for the Status Quo side of things and ANY dialog is a good thing as long as it's civil.

There needs to be more spirit to the whole 356 scene. The Registry leadership doesn't show 'spirit' but appears to be just hunkered down by a lawsuit and 'attitude.' Stubborn. A lawsuit brought in a CAR CLUB just to free up information about the CAR CLUB??? A big 'WTF' on that 'little' detail!

I almost typed..."am I missing something?"....but knew the regulars here would pile on with lengthy lists and more of the same snide comments that I and others make that gets all who dissent, ignored. Gotta try another tack.

Maybe more positive comments and suggestions would do more to raise the consciousness of those just stumbling onto this site.. of why there IS dissent. Awareness is spreading quickly, but there are those long-time Registry members who don't know there has been a lawsuit going on and that a schism in the Registry has polarized a minority of the members (and former members) into 'sides.'

"Really!? Why is there a lawsuit? You mean I couldn't attend a real trustee meeting if I ever wanted to? There are NO term limits? No audit EVER? NO minutes, no meeting agendas available? I never knew!" "Surely there should be an alternative membership for overseas 356ers and what's wrong with making the magazine available online?" Etc, etc. Yep, and those are then new 'members' emerging from their 'subscriber' cocoons.

Awareness and 'sides' are why we who insist on changes in the Registry are active on Justin's site and very grateful to have an alternate voice...and why George Dunn was overheard 'presenting' the trustees' 'side' to members at a non-Registry event last weekend. Unfortunately, the 'do-ers' listen, the rest just glaze over, so it's become a recruitment struggle.

Maybe we are ALL just crotchety old men and the 356 scene has gotten stale.....but some old farts on this site have the spirit to, yeah, 'attack and accuse' the old farts who 'lead' the Registry in their own special way. Dragging this out can't be good PR for Porsche and it's not doing any good for anyone, overall.

Everyone with 'spirit' claims to want the best for the organization, but it's become a game of 'chicken' played with the club. Two different ways of driving.....two 'my ways' on one 'highway.' Hope there isn't a big crash.

[Meissen540]

Mic,
To answer your question of why insurance is needed, its simple, to protect the organizers from liability.
Bill is correct in his hypotheticals, anyone can sue you for anything, and you will have to defend. Someone trips over an extension cord and claims negligence on the part of the organizers, then you have to put money up to defend yourself.
I secured a local bank's parking lot to park for an activity in a nearby town. The bank required that they we have their name specifically on the liability policy, and we also had to sign a waiver saying they were not liable in any way by allowing use of the site.
Personally, I would never do one of these without being insured. Your just asking for trouble if you do.
I also suspect is one reason why more events are not planned, once they get to this part of it, they don't want the PITA.

Tom
Atlanta