Porsche 356 headlight assembly mounting tips

[JTR70]

Good, clean, proper and securely mounted headlights on a 356 can become a major issue and is one that's easily overlooked until the very end when its time to assemble the car for good after collision repair or restoration. The following are few tips I learned through my limited experience which I hope might be of some use to you one day. Any additional tips from the pro's or guys with far more experience than I are of course welcome to expand if they'd like. My following example is an A car but since the buckets and headlight assemblies are fully interchangeable it will apply for All 356 AB or C.

The most basic and important detail to keep in mind when installing a headlight bucket is to allow for enough space between the body and the lip of the bucket to account for the base seal and the eventual few mills of paint thickness when its all said and done. This was the stern warning I received from a restorer buddy here in town several years ago. Before welding my bucket is being positioned for spacing here with seal to account for its thickness. It was pulled out a touch more to account for the primer and paint.

As the bodywork phase slowly progressed I'd periodically check for paint accumulation and thin it back out in and around headlight opening.

After final paint I mocked the lights loosely once again but didn't push for a fully seated and synched down fit. After reading Bruce's warning and recommendation on Tom's thread it got me thinking so I set an afternoon aside to see if my lights were really going to fit down fully with the seal like they should. My education on headlamps and seals was about to begin.

[JTR70]

My first attempt at fully mounting original Hella headlight assemblies I specifically restored for this car of course did not go at all smoothly. Nothing is ever easy or straight forward with these cars is it? I got the top lip of the bezels hooked on the bucket tang though I found I could still peel the right side free. I immediately panicked and thought I somehow still managed to screw up the bucket install even with all the caution I had taken. The lower set screw did start easily on both but bound up very quickly and way before there was chance of drawing the lower portion of the trim ring down anywhere near the body.

I have a second pair of assemblies for my coupster project so I decided to give those a go to see if there was any significant change or improvement on fit.

They did seem to fit a little better but only slightly. I could no longer peel the right side bezel off the mount tang so it was to my great relief that the problem wasn't necessarily with the bucket position.

Again a slightly better fit but still not completely flush mounted and also the set screws were still binding up too quick. No choice but to now really study and get my head around how it all sandwiches together and root out what the issues where.

The first problem with the set screws binding was the most straight forward. The threads were just clogged with paint and or sanding sediment. I took a nice long bolt to get me well away from my paint and used much more controllable wrench instead of a spade screw driver. I'd be asking for trouble If I used a screw & driver to work the threads free at this stage. I had a clear vision of the spade camming out and going right across my paint job. Too tragic to think about. These both took some doing before they were clear; a little grease and some careful forward and reversing. It was a little scary as it did get tight at times and I got very concerned about breaking the welds on the captive nuts. Another potential ball breaker as rewelding those at this stage would also be a little hard on this finish to say the least. Fortunately I got them both clear without breaking the nuts free.
First fitment issue solved.

[JTR70]

Next I figured out why the headlight unit I restored for this car wasn't seating down securely enough on the upper bucket tang and it wasn't to do exactly with the base/body seal.

When I reassembled the light I inadvertently placed the bezel keeper clips in the path of the mounting tang. You can see the chips in the paint correspond with the wire clips.

Just for my own confirmation I mounted a bare trim ring on so I could get a better idea of their mounting arrangement. As you can see the tang reaches up in there pretty well. Once I pushed the clips off to either side and out of the way of this flange I could no longer peel the upper bezel free as before. One more problem solved. Stupid stuff I know but all rookie mistakes that will surely cause frustration and potential damage while you're wrestling with it.

Fitment was getting better but I still could not get the bottom half of the bezel to seat flush against the body on either side. This last problem would be base seal oriented.

[JTR70]

Never paid that close attention to it before but the trim ring and bucket lip are almost a precise slip fit all the way around. I'm referring to original parts only as this is what I'm using. I don't have any repop units on hand so I can't speak to those. My bare trim ring is mounted here to the factory Original undamaged side so I could get a baseline fit. The base seal is not installed.

Again without the seal the bottom rolled lip of the ring clicks right around the bucket's lip for the flush fit I'm after.

With the base seal installed the bottom lip of my bezel is now raised even with the bucket with no chance of now fitting around it like before.

The problem is with the seals center shoulder. Its too tall, thick and pronounced The trim ring is forced to sit on top of it where my pointer is which is raising the level and not allowing the bottom lip clearance to slip around the buckets edge. If it where the right side of this car I'd say I messed up and set the bucket in too tight but this example side is factory so its the seal.

I experimented by shaving the center shoulder down in and around the upper tang.

With that change to the seal made the ring was once again low enough to allow the bottom to slip by the bucket's flange for that flush fit. Last issue solved.

So the culprit isn't necessarily the overall thickness of the seal or the paint etc. Its in the pronouncement of the center rib's profile. At least in my case.

I did do a little rummaging through my seals for a comparison and I found an interesting one. Its the lower one pictured and it seems to be perhaps an original example. It looks and feels like real rubber where all my newer ones feel more slick, shiny and more plastic like. More importantly notice how soft, rolled and lower profile the center rib is as compared to the newer one above. With what I just went though this would be the seal that wouldn't crowd the bezel. Anyway I don't know the origins of this seal and weather its 911 or what but it sure does confirm the variances in seals that Bruce was mentioning.
So by toning down that center profile a lot headlight assembly fitment issues should be remedied. Any further input and wisdom appreciated!
Justin

[John Pierce]

Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to post this. Definitely will reread this when I install my headlight buckets.

John

[bbspdstr]

I won't have time tomorrow to photo the difference but a 911 seal is much more dimensional (thick) and of a sponge rubber. In another thread I related at how I used a 356 gasket to cure that issue on a mis-placed repro fender vs bucket installed over 20 years ago on this customer car when there was not enough clearance, so the last guy just didn't bother to use a seal on that side.

I have to thank Jack for the referral to Wolfsburg West for even thinner VW headlight seals, a boon to some troublesome fitments on 356s.

Yes, the spring wire keepers interference is a one-time experience and ya never do that again. That transcends the "blame it on the repro" we like to moan about and makes one wonder just WHY we can't always think about EVERY last little detail before having to say.... "well, DUH!".

For John and anyone installing their headlight buckets.....it's been put out there for many years and no one I know has ever seen them "cross-eyed" but most seems to wind up from the manufacturer a little "wall-eyed." Some are straight across enough that a straight edge can hit all four bucket sides (with the lid up, if installed) but over the years I found those to be in the minority. The outer edges can be as much a 3-4 mm back. Jus' sayin.'

-Bruce

[bbspdstr]

"Each time I "gathered up" the unit off the fender I was scared to death I was either going to drop the assembly on the concrete, scratch my paint or both. "

Another hint: I use the big square interlocking foam pads that are bought in any big-box or most auto stores, usually sold as "anti-fatigue" mats, but I call them "anti-stress mats" when used under any delicate assemble process.

I also keep the green tape people (3M) in business, as copious amounts protecting fresh paint, carpet, etc is still cheaper than repair, repaint or replacement.

-Bruce

[JTR70]

Excellent point Bruce. I got so caught up in the moment I just didn't take the time to tape it for safety. Now that you mention it I have seen a few "wall-eyed" front ends. Either way as far as symmetry I've noticed these front ends can play tricks on your eyes. Especially the more you stare at them.

Went ahead and shaved the entire run down a few MM's looking for the elusive flush fit at the bottom.

That turned the trick as it got the lower half to finally draw in close enough. I may have been able to squeeze it more but I was getting concerned with the amount of tension on that screw. I've noticed it is pulling and distorting the reflection in the metal around this area just a bit.

I'm going to leave them mounted from here on in so they get good and use to their new home. Forgot I still have to send those adjuster screws out for chrome. Always "one more thing" to do.
Thanks again for your input Bruce!
Justin

[Phil Planck]

This just showed up on the 356 Registry forum:

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41626

Restoration Design looking for info to make a "correct" bucket.

[213532]

Many thanks for the invaluable info on fitting the headlights. My car has been painted and we have yet to trial fit the headlights. I, too, have made the same mistake putting the clips at the top of the rim.

Regarding the seals to the body, there are different ones and some are too fat for a proper fit.

Instead of a bolt to clean the paint, dust, etc. from threaded fasteners, I use a tap of the appropriate size and pitch.

Thanks again!

Mike

[JTR70]

Thanks Phil.

I haven't had a chance yet to really work with these new buckets from Dansk but this original trim snapped right into place with a very consistent fit overall so, so far so good.

Absolutely, a proper thread tap is the right tool for the job Mike. Thanks for pointing that out. A tap and die set is on my wish list...

[Safetypup]

Went today to try to fit my lights with the new seal today. Lights have not been properly installed in about 20 years folllowing a rotisserie body restoration and repaint. It was my dad's car but now it is mine and I am slowly putting it back together.

Without the seals, each side will catch on the top tang ok, but it is difficult to get the left and right sides of each light simultaneously flush. If I push one side of the trim ring down to make it flush, the other side of the ring pops up/off. Putting on the seals just makes it worse.

1) is there a left and a right headlight unit or are they both the same? (This is a 1961 roadster)

2) if the headlight bucket openings are just a millimeter or two too wide, what's the preferred way to fix this for an all-around flush fit?

A) smoosh the trim ring inside lip a little (maybe with vise grips using rubber to protect the part you can see). These are original parts and I don't want to crack the chrome so this may be a bad use.

( take a wooden block and a small hammer and try to tap on the lip just a bit to reshape the lip ? (Worried this will crack the paint and provide a foothold for rust later - I guess I could dab some primer or something on there if it breaks the paint)

C) other idea?

[213532]

I've run into the same issues with not only my cars but those of friends: the seal being too thick, the bucket set too far in and of course my own 'duh" moment with the retaining clips. As a tip, I use a tap to clean out the threads after paint as there will be dust, blast media and paint in places you don't want it.

Thanks for the tip about the seals from Wolfsburg West.

Mike

[JTR70]

Welcome along Brian, and thanks for joining us here!

The headlight units are generic so there is no dedicated left of right unit. How the headlamp is adjusted and aimed would be the only difference. Are your headlamps/trim rings original or new reproductions? If they are repops that could certainly be part of the fitment issues your having.

Justin

[Safetypup]

Mine are originals. I think the root of the issue is that the car had rotisserie resto (floor pans and I think other areas like the headlight buckets) with a fair amount of work done but the person doing the work did not physically have the exact two lights that match this car. My guess is he did some test fitting with parts from other cars around the shop. Or maybe he did not test fit after final paint?

Either way, it looks like I will have to try very gently massaging the metal lip with a block of wood and a small hammer (eeek) to make it fit just a little better.