BT5 resto

[bbspdstr]

First, let me apolgize for not lauding Jonesy for his work before I jumped in with a possible new fix for certain anomaly of T-5B. Jonesy, you have tackled the tough stuff as well as anyone could....seriously!

Second;

That's a nice fix. Thanks for sharing that trade secret Bruce!

Great idea Jonesy, A dedicated build thread on your (or anyone else)motor and/or transmission would be welcomed as you are correct we're a little shy on drivetrain builds at the moment. Nice job on the splash pan, keep it up! Justin

Thank you, Justin, I appreciate your positive comment. It's not a 'trade secret,' it was just one of those light-bulb-going-on thoughts and thought it was worth a try....my first at that (fortunately) rare mount problem.

On that note, we all seem to be noticing that just when we get a handle on things 356, more things crop up that demand new approaches. Honestly, if that Roadster were mine, I would have been using parts I have lying around from 50 years playing with 356s that didn't go to Parker Tyler and I would have welded 'ears' for 2 round rubber mounts on the tube to move them away from the heat and oil and adding the stability.

Perhaps a fun thread would be to poke at the company we all have slavishly supported all these years by noting/listing their design and engineering flaws. The B center front trans mount is one. I'll always think of the initial T-6 fuel tank bottom sender. They corrected that and then had a relapse on the early 911 tanks. I had a '72 911 and actually like the rear-right external oil fill...but that one-year feature apparently confused some who added gas through that handy orifice. Any others come to mind?

"Excellence was expected".... but perfection is impossible to expect.

I agree that mechanical input here on abcgt.com would be good from both ends of the learning/teaching curve. I know the basics but can always hark back to one of my favorite sayings: "I know a few things...but by now I know better where to look things up or who to ask that knows more than I do."

This site can be more than just a "show and tell" format, it already has "teaching and learning" and can expand into every aspect of things Porsche if we all keep having light-bulbs flickering in our heads and projects we wish to share and from which to gain valuable input. I truly look forward to seeing this site grow in scope and participation!

Justin, you have a winner here with your site....thank you again!!

-Bruce

[Jonesy_356]

Can I ask a favour from someone? I am putting a patch on the area at the front end of the rocker, up around to the join with the fender between the door and the back of the front wheel arch. This part on both sides of mine has been trashed so I don't have a template. I need to get the curve right that'll form the forward part of the lower front door gap. The way I have the patch at the moment it is a single thickness of sheet, but I am pretty certain this is not right. Where I have folded the patch on the rear of the vertical part of the guard/fender, I have obviously folded the panel over the flange on the outer part of the closing panel. So that part is three sheets thick. I am guessing that the curve, as it transitions from the vertical to the horizontal and becomes the front part of the rocker is also folded over on itself (as the flange has finished at the point) but really need to see it to confirm. If someone has a virgin example, or a good example of a repair in this area it would be very helpful.

many thanks in advance,

Jonesy

[JTR70]

Hey Jonesy,
I hope I interpreted your request correctly:

This flange rolls right around the corner on up the edge of the fender to create that pinch seam for the edge of the back of the fender. As the flange makes the corner and transitions from rocker/drain pan to fender there is a bit of a gap left as it crosses over. I hope this is the info you were asking for. Justin

[Jonesy_356]

Perfect mate thanks.

[Jonesy_356]

Hey guys another favor to ask please. I think I've made a rookie error and replicated the previous guy's errors. What I need is the profile of the rear of the fender, between the front of the door and the rear of the wheel arch, about half way up the wheel arch, measured horizontally. So if you were looking down onto a straight edge held horizontally from the door forward, I need the shape of the curve and where the peak of that gentle curve is. I suspect it is supposed to be 'highest' at the door, falling to the wheel arch ( but that's not what I've got ATM).

I made the error ( I think it's an error) because both sides have been repaired the same way on my machine. But it just doesn't look right. And someone here ( Bruce or Tom?) posted a photo about running a string line from wheel arch to wheel arch and checking the flow. Well, mine has a wave! It's easy fixed I think. I'm not too upset as this right side is the trainer for the full closing panel replacement on the other side.

Many thanks in advance,

Jonesy

[Phil Planck]

Might have been this one. Bruce Baker does not do this but uses a long slat. I have done that and don't see much difference. Hopefully Bruce will chime in now that he is done cat sitting.




Phil

[JTR70]

Hey Jonesy,

If I understand you correctly you need the leading edge of the rear fender profile at the jamb back the rear wheel arch? If that it correct your doors rear edge profile is going to completely dictate that shape.

All you're looking to do is to continue the door line and shape profile consistently across the jamb onto the fender. Don't trouble yourself with any "factory spec" type profiled shape. All that matters to your car is what its door profile shape is saying. Locate and mount your doors in their shimmed and fully latched position (don't forget to add in the door seal while you're at too) then build your rear fender sections off your fully set doors. Hope this helps and that I understood your question correctly. Justin

[Jonesy_356]

Justin, Phil,

thanks for the responses, and sorry for my tardy thank you. I did not describe my problem well enough but your response helped a lot. It is actually the area forward of the front of the door that I have having a drama with. I got my lazy butt down to Jase B's shop to check our his '58 and see how he had handled this area. Jase was busy (as always) but Ludie was kind enough to give me some time. The area is very flat - perhaps a 1 mm change in elevation in the space between the front of the door and the rear of the wheel arch. I also checked out his panel gaps (sublime) and the area behind the door as your photos show - which also has minimal curve. I think I will have to cut out my patch and re-do. I attempted to fold the seam at the rear of the guard/fender over the closing panel flange as per the original but it was very difficult to get right. I will redo it as Jase and others (Tom?) have shown here, where the 'third' layer, the inner one is welded on. Thus allowing more flexibility with distances, clearances and gaps.

Many thanks for the help, thanks for sharing

Jonesy

[JTR70]

Jonesy, you are Very lucky to you have Jason and Luddy so close by!

Two unbelievably talented craftsmen! I was fortunate to have them help me with my fender one fine afternoon a few years back.
Glad Luddy's got you on the right path, tell them both I said hello!
Justin

[Jonesy_356]

Damn skippy, those guys could make a mirror out of a crushed Coke can!

Will say g'day next time I call in. They are such helpful guys, their new business is going great for them now, they are in good company with some awesome craftsmen with complementary skills.

Jonesy

[Jonesy_356]

I'm loving the two new machines added to this forum it will be great to watch. Just read BB's sage advice to Blue58356 about recharging the passion from time to time. Having just seen Jase Bobruk's beautifully completed, still in raw steel '58, I can only concur. Something to aspire to.

As luck would have it I am in Washington this weekend with a day to spare, and the Potomac 356 Owners Group are having a bash this Sunday ( Bjorn's farm) which I have been kindly invited to. Anyone here going? I get a bit fuzzy about where in the world we all are.

Jonesy.

[JTR70]

Didn't realize you're on vacation Jonesy, That's on the other side of the country for me but Take lots of photos and tell us how it went.

[Jonesy_356]

Been a while so I thought i'd better update my progress. I have been watching other's progress with interest, thanks. I had my day with the Potomac 356 Owners Group in Frederick, ML. It was a great day, with about 20 great 356ers offering me all sorts of help, advice a support. Several of them had done multiple 356 restorations, some were on their first 356 like me. Thanks to all, especially Bjorn for hosting the event and taking care of the wayward Australian who invited himself along.

Great line up of beautiful German engineering...




So the story in the last few weeks has been the area in between the front of the door and the rear of the wheel arch, on the right hand side of the car. I made a rookie mistake and ass-u-me'd that the previous guy had done the job right. So I matched the curve of his repair when i cut out all the crap and made my replacement. But after I had it in it just didn't look right...






When viewed from above it was too rounded. The flow of the gently curve from the front of the car to the back of the car was broken. So I have to redo it. I'll make it flat. But before I do that I have to fix my door. The curve at the rear of the fender is good, even though the curve of the patch is too convex. The door, particularly the forward edge, needs to be fixed before I try to get the lateral position of the next patch I do right. I know I was supposed to do this first (according to Ron's book) but I had my reasons for doing it this way. Anyway, the door...







has some issues!

[Jonesy_356]

So I drilled out and cut the bottom panel, and bent the seam/fold at the bottom of the skin...







Note the funky tool I made...now where did I get thay bright idea??

Glad I pulled it all apart. It was a typical one step back, one step back type deal...





I had to cut a section out of the skin...

[Jonesy_356]

Tidied it all up - plenty of grinding, rust converter, and had to make a patch...




This is about where I am at, although it has zinc paint on the whole thing. I have made the patch for the skin and am waiting till the right time to weld it in. Meanwhile, have been making patches for the forward sill/rocker area







Some of my TIGs are actually all right...




More often then not, though, I have to 'rescue' them with my MIG, then just accept the subsequent grinding. I've a while to go before I'd call myself OK at TIGing, but I really like it.