1964 Bali Blue SC Coupe Restoration Project

[Red911]

Thanks for the lead on Restoration Design. I have emailed them.

I did look for the kit, but did not find it.

I ordered a few more parts like the rear closing panel, inner reinforced at the threshold, a front panel inside the closing panel and the inner and outer torsion bar parts.

Can either of you point me to an area on Justin's site here so I can brace myself for the job ahead.

Thanks in advance, Tom

[Red911]

I emailed Alex at RD and I had placed two orders. The first order was the photo of the parts and the second one was the rest of the parts Alex thought I would need to have a solid foundation. Thanks for the thoughtfulness and assistance. This will be a tough one.

[JTR70]

Tom, take a look toward the bottom of this page:

https://forum.abcgt.com/forum/main-forum/356-restoration-projects/281-coupe-into-speedster-conversion

Maybe this subframe I built for that coupster project might give you an idea or two.

[Red911]

Thanks Justin, I will be leaning on all the experts on your site to get though my project unscathed.

Keep the Faith and Save them All.

Tom

[JTR70]

Tom, if you haven't looked through it before I highly recommend John Pierce's T6 restoration. He did a phenomenal job on his chassis/body restoration. Its a T6 build so you are going to find it a bit more helpful than an A type restoration. Toward the middle of his build you will find the extensive chassis repairs that you are facing. Take a look:

https://forum.abcgt.com/forum/main-f...6b-t-6-rebuild

[Red911]

Thanks Justin, I will do that.

[Red911]

Hello all,
Have an Happy and Save Thanksgiving. We all have a lot to be thankful for during the pandemic. For me, the work on the 356 is my mental savior.

As you can probably tell by now, I am overwhelmed with all the rust in my car.

As Justin suggested I read with awe all of John Pierce's postings. He is a true craftsman, as are others on Justin's site. I am just a plodder that loves our little cars.


Here is where I began.


Closer look at the rust worm damage. The whole car looks this way.



The rust is all consuming and scary to me per my posts.


Starting to fit panels.

So here are my questions:
1. If I cut the rust back to solid metal, can I continue to restore this car? I see almost all the "pro's" totally remove many parts of the car and install full panels. That is what I do not want to do. I just want to fix the rust and make the car solid.
2. If the answer to #1 is "it's ok to just cut out the rust and weld in good steet. These will all be Restoration Design parts like this part. What drill size should I use for spot welds or rosette welds where I drill through one layer. clamp them tightly and weld. I will start with 1' between holes starting with 1/*8" drills.

Thanks for your help.

Tom

[JTR70]

Hi Tom, I try cut away only what I have to. Some times a full panel replacement gives a cleaner result but if I can I prefer to save most of the original. Hope your just trial fitting that closing panel pictured above, it will be the very last item that you'll add for this entire repair down in this door well. If you weld this on now you'll be out of sequence and will be locked out for the access needed to install the inner tray that this lower flange attaches to.

[Red911]

Hi Justin,

I am just seeing where I need to go. I will post a photo of my next step.below.

[Scott B]

I’ll confirm but I have been doing 3/4 spacing between welds and the weld hole will need to be larger than 1/8.

[Red911]

Thanks Scott, I have really enjoyed your posts and the excellent work you do.

[Phil Planck]

I use 7/32 hole punch(Roper Whitney) and drill bits. Try to make spacing same as original. I think floor pan was 5/8". I also just replaced rusted portions except full outer longitudinals, rockers and floor pans.

[Red911]

Hi Phil, We went to the Boston ECH 2012 together and I organized the visit to Fay Butler's shop. I had restored four vehicles at that time, and needed to learn more about the 356's which I had purchased four by then. Three are sold through Adam Wright at Unobtainium. This is my last "reconstruction" project. I say that because the closest I can get to a restoration is a reconstruction.I am so impressed with the quality of everyone's work at Justin's site, that I can only continue to learn from all of you.

[roy mawbey]

Tom, as you know I have been watching since you started this job. Its a good thing you know its going to be tears and years to finish it to make it a driver. Such sensible advice so far on following the rules of not losing any datum's you can rely on. You know to remove all the rusty metal and then continue will do just that, any datum you know that is stable is important. You own is it 3 other 356 cars but they are 'A' 's like mine? to compare with. So good to start with the doors on sound hinge supports, but without a Cellette jig to confirm the positions of the Torsion bars the suspension mounting elements elements if they were rusted out connected to inner bulkhead it has to be perfect alignment. As it is, the lower the front strut reinforcement has almost totally rusted out so the inner panel of the fender in last photos of the drivers side must need patching too?

Likewise on the rear. is any of the torsion bar locations sound together with again the inner fender panel with top suspension mounting still secure? Remove too much at a time and it does make wonder if movement will occur to the frame without support.

The work involved to make these box sections sound again is considerable. Is the door shut area still in one piece to the rear fender at the door post to the quarter window. In fact is there still metal on the area the rear quarter window seals down on?
If suspension mounting areas have bad rust all around then surely you will have to cut sections one by one to replace so the mounting area section does not move.

I don't think I have explained myself so well above, I can visualise your problems but really they need to be seen. Rhode Island is too far for me!!!

I really hope you can see the way round it all its not an easy task but if it keeps you happy working away why not. I do find it still interesting after over 50 years working on them but...that's a lot of metal work to do. I am 78 next year so it does get that much harder sometimes to get started on something on the 356 and remember although you are younger than me you have another 3 cars to do !!!

Keep smiling

Roy

[Red911]

Hi Roy, I always read good advice and help from you. So thank you.
Hey, I am 74 1/2 now, so not far from 78, but we are committed to saving 356's.
Where I stand now. I have a trammel and the front to back are 1 1/2 MM off, so within the specs in the 356 manual. When I cut, I plan to measure when I repair any part of the front to back to make sure I am within tolerance. I do plan to cut existing metal back to solid metal, but not take the car apart as Justin's projects skillfully demonstrate. I am not as adept as John Pierce or Phil Planck and certainly cannot carry Bruce's suitcase. But, it is fun to think about the next move. Actually, now any move as I am almost frozen with fear on the "cut and paste" job.
As some say, Rome was not built in a day, so I will press on, albeit slowly.
Earlier, I moved too quickly and took the paint off many parts and they rusted over the summer, so I stopped and cleaned the surface rust off, painted two coats of KBS Rust Seal on the car, and used a rattle car of body shop primer to topcoat the KBS. I did this process on the two SWB 911's and successfully painted the body color over the top of the ScotchBrite pad rough sanding with PPG Epoxy Primer, three coats of color, and three coats of clear inside and on the bottom. both 911's came out fine per my first photos in my blog.
Now, the cut and paste is very extensive, so I need to get it right as you speak about above. Again, thank you for the advice and stay tuned.
Tom

[Phil Planck]

Ton
The fender Fay made is now installed on Foam Car. Probably pics in my thread.

[Red911]

I did see that fender that Fay made on your car. Congratulations! And thank you for your advice above.
Tom

[Scott B]

Tom the hole punch I use is 3/16 or 5mm. I know the hole looks big but you want a solid base for the weld to adhere to. It always seemed like a large hole when I stared but as you get good at welding you can puddle the weld very quickly to fill and get good heat penetration.

[Red911]

Hello all,
Justin correctly commented that the panel I was test fitting was the last one to install.


Yesterday, I began to blast behind the place I will weld in a 2" strip along the top of the vertical inner support directly in front of the blasted area.


Here is a photo looking straight down after more blasting today.




Another vertical view to the area the 2" strip will be welded to from the chassis to behind the door hinge.


Straight on view, remember the car is upside down on the rotisserie. More tomorrow.

I appreciate everyone's comments, thank you .

Tom

[JTR70]

Things sure start looking up once you cut past the rot. Keep going Tom!

[Red911]

Thanks Justin, just starting the process of reconstruction. This is after owning the car for 38 years.

[Red911]

Hello all,

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all!

My rusty reconstruction project is daunting, so it takes me a while to compose myself and get going on the next step.

I am working on the driver's side from inner longitudinal starting with the farthest forward area with good metal to weld.



The car is inverted on the roterissiere, so you can see the outside of the area for the first of the Restoration Design (RD) perimeter panels to install. This one was easy to see where it started as the floor existed and I could line up the flange where the floor would be welded to.

Made a cardboard template from my wife's favorite beer 12 pack, Harpoon.


You can see the template from the inside. I used Cleco anvils to attach the template. You can see how easy the template matched up with the remaining floor flange.


If you have watched Lazze's Metal Shaping YouTube channel, he uses and sells if they are in stock, Cleco "bridges". I made my own, that you will see below.

[Red911]

Hello all,

The first template is easy to line up the 90 degree flange with existing floor parts, but I needed a way to move successfully down the longitudinal toward the rear.


I made a trammel to swing along the tunnel to have equal distance to the floor flange.


Part two came along and I used clecos to make any final adjustments prior to welding.


Here is the rear of the first two perimeter longitudinals using my cleco bridges.


Number three installed.

This was the extent of the trammel's reach, so the next post tells you how I will move down. the longitudinal.

Thanks to all for your assistance and encouragement.\

Tom

[Red911]

Hello all,

As noted in the last post, I now have too long a reach for the trammel to properly measure the right height as the tunnel has different heights as it moves toward the rear.


I rotated the car and used a wire wheel that did not touch the rust. I settled on a 3M 5 inch abrasive wheel to uncover where the spot welds are located.

To be more cautious about cutting the floor off completely, I will cut off the spot welds on both sides of the bottom of the tunnel but not the entire floor. That will allow me to use the trammel and locate what I believe is the proper installation and cleco the next perimeter parts.

Thanks for all your support,

Tom

[Red911]

Hello all,

I began my strategy to get the RD longitudinal perimeter 90 degree panels to make sure they would fit the floors.


Here is the driver's side with an increasing "wedge" opening from back to front. That was probably due to sitting in the seats without the floors connected to the side panels. I did only drive the car 20 miles in 1982 and parked it then.


I leaned down and took a photo across the floor. The floor seems flat from the tunnel to the opening between the floor and the inner longitudinal. (I saved this photo with the correct orientation, but it turned by itself, sorry if you have to look 90 degrees to see what I am saying.)


I measured this opening at 4 3/4" from the bend in the inner longitudinal to the floor.


The passenger side was 4 1/4"

In Ron Roland's book, he says the distance from the bend in the inner longitudinal to the bend in the floor is 4" The second photo shows no bending down of the floor between the tunnel to the inner longitudinal, so did the floor "spring" back when released and add to the gap?

Can anyone measure this distance to see if the 4" is correct, or have I tentative installed the three perimeter panels a 1/4" too short?

Thanks, Tom