The El Paso '64, opinions about floor

[DG58INNM]

A year ago I got talked into working on a '64 Karmann coupe. Just a battery box he said , yeah, right. It became a complete nose job, then fender repairs, bumpers, closing panels, threshold plates, rear seat bottoms, etc.

Anyway, scraping the bottom for some fresh undercoat revealed holes on the front floor pan. Ledges seem good. Rear floor pan seems good. So what do you guys think about just replacing the front half of the floor pan. I've never done one this way. How to go about it? Replace out over the ledges and toeboard, and butt weld to remaining pan just ahead of the transverse tube? Thats what I'm thinking now, but can you work the new pan up in there that way? Open for suggestions/ideas.

Thanks,
DG

[JTR70]

Sounds like a typical can of worms David. Good description but some pics would help. I love the idea of saving as much OG metal as possible but replacing only the forward half of the floor seems way more involved if you're hoping to get it done in one piece. My mind swims at the thought of trying to fish that into position since the rear half lays over top of the front half. Then there is all the clean and prep to get the remnants of the OG out of the way. Without seeing it I think grafted patch panels are the easiest way to go if you're looking to preserve the rear half.

[John Pierce]

Hey David,

I've seen pictures of it done the way that your'e suggesting. It looked much harder to do than just taking out the whole floor (front and rear) and redoing it all. I would think that if want to keep the front floor then I would leave the ledges and then weld new pieces for the inner sections. This is shown in Jim Kelloggs book, pages 41-46. I've also seen it in a VW repair book. It looks way much easier to do..

[Jbrooks]

David

I just did the front half and up the bulkhead a inch or so. It's not too hard but don't take out any original metal you don't need to. I lest the tunnel and a 1/2" or so around it, then fitted the new panels to it.

If the floor is good aft of the cross member, I would clean it up, treat it and press on.

Photos at this link.
. http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/39074-65C-Garage-Find-front-floor-replacement.html

[DG58INNM]

Thanks Jbrooks. Your floor job is exactly what I had in mind and nice to have the photo tutorial.

[DG58INNM]

Justin, here are a few pictures. Car is a bit of a fence sitter. If it were mine, I'd do it all and leave no panel untouched. Owner thought it was nearly rust free. But it was hiding some nasty surprises. Still, better than a lot of the cars out there.
Some parts of it were pretty good, but some parts were distinctly not.

Here's the floor.


Close up on the drivers side. passenger side also like this next to the tunnel flange and the tunnel will need a little repair there too. Whole thing is very soft under the drivers seat. But from the transverse tube back, its pretty solid, except for a small area by the drivers side rear seat mounts, localized enough to be an easy patch.


Thanks,
DG

[DG58INNM]

Thanks John. was looking at your rear fender/door jamb earlier today. Looks like its coming along nicely for you. What would bubba think of your car now?

Had to fix that are on this car recently. Not my favorite area to work in. Had to coax the curvature into the inner layer much like you did. Tedious work.







DG

[DG58INNM]

So, this thing came to me as simply needing a battery box. That's what he said, anyway. He showed up with a one-piece Trevor battery box. I mentioned that I didn't think it would be possible to do this without taking the nose off the car. But then I got to looking closer at the nose. Something not right here!



Peeled off a little bondo, and found pop rivets and fiberglass. Dug that away and it quickly got worse! Car had had a long ago nose job. Joint was overlapped and leaded. Rust got going between the layers and eventually came through the paint. Somebody pop riveted a piece of tin behinf it, then fiberglassed it from the back side and bonded the top side. Of course that just made it rust faster and ate away a substantial amount of metal.


Fiberglass and tin backers peeled from underneath. Both sides were the same.


Lovely, eh?


Oh well, time for a new nose.

[Don C]

Bubba strikes again!

[bbspdstr]

Bubba seems to have been all over and for many years. The good news is that certain people (represented on this site and elsewhere) have taken his challenge and defeated his work and made the old cars better than ever done by Bubba.

They are still relevant. I took an early SC Coupe out yesterday that got the whole enchilada after being rescued from a barn in the middle north of the US. It's owner drove it every day from the early '70s until it was left to sit in his parents barn while he, the (2nd) owner, went off to school, then grad school and then into medical research.

That car had been Bubba-ized with worn hinges being "fixed" with 3/8" bolts, tractor rear lights that required cutting the tail to make rectangular holes, leftover home carpet that the mice loved....and LOTS of rust.

The owner remembered the car fondly, so when he was financially ready, it came to me for it's restoration. (Hey, he was talking with my wife who was with the same Pharma company and he asked her what I did and...)

When I drove it one more time before pick-up, I just wanted to head west and keep going even if I max'd out my credit cards!

I feel that way with every restoration. The last drive after all the little list items are checked off, I get my way-back time machine ride and I feel justified that I made this career choice and made another 356 (or early 911) "relevant" again.

Keep 'em drivin.'

-Bruce

[DG58INNM]

Of course if I'm honest with myself, I'm a "Bubba". Born and raised in the Lone Star state (the good part, not that Austin/Houston/Dallas urban nightmare which is now largely repopulated with liberal californicators). Bubba gets it going down the road, without waiting for hinge pins from the Fatherland, which Bubba knows is just some weird little socialist country over in Yoorope!

Anyway, installing the floor in the El Paso car today. Ledges pretty good. Much better than on any of my previous projects. One bad spot about 4" long on the drivers side, and the passenger side tunnel flange needed replacing. Will post some photos later.

[bbspdstr]

Living in San Antonio in the later '60s and having met Bill Jones, I helped him work on Concours prep on 356s he had from the distributorship when new. No Bubba was allowed in Bill's garage.

Really, Bubbas are everywhere. I have found evidence of a Bubba being involved in Porsche builds and assembly when new. "Made by Hand" is a quaint phrase meant to allow and dismiss gaffs outside of the norms Porsche intended. Once in a while, there was a "Made by....oops."

I also was passing through El Paso when it snowed. Texas was OK but kinda strange overall, so I thought I'd see what Californica was like when I was discharged from the USAF. A couple of weeks of that and wife and I were broke, so we drove back to PA. Since then, all other states have been fun to visit but not to live in.

BB in PA

[DG58INNM]

Bubbas are everywhere. Haha! My new motto.

I went down to San Antonio about 1982 or so and looked up Jones Autowerks. Just a young kid coming in off the street, unannounced, and not buying anything. Bill Jones spent the whole afternoon showing me around the place. Saw lots of neat cars. Kind of a funky place. A series of old hangers at a small airport (Stinson field?). Not fancy. Very generous and welcoming of Mr Jones I always thought.

Photo of the '64 El Paso car after the front floor welded in place. Really quite simple to get it into place.