1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

[JTR70]

Upper closing panel fitment and positioning continued:
Fore and aft position set and now onto tightening up the rearward lap section against the door well panel.
My final position ended up making a gap with the R.D. trim line but its just par for the course and will be sealed out entirely when its all set.
Now onto determining the final flange height for the top of this panel. I needed to mount the fender on top to figure this part out.
Tacked the top section back on to determine the fore and aft placement of the fender on the new closing wall flange.
Set screwed into initial fitment on the new wall.

[JTR70]

Initial right fender mock up:
Lowered the hood down and latched for the first try. Yikes, about as bad as I expected. The initial gap runs heinously wide with the edge of the fender a touch low. There is also some wiggle room with how the fender is laying. Right now it wants to flop over exaggerating this poor fitment so all that has to be taken into account too.
The other half of the problem is with this shouldered relief shape. It will need to be messaged down to allow the rest of the panel to seat snuggly against the chassis. This will eliminate most of that wide gap issue.
Inner Panel seems to need raising and tilting slightly also soedge will match up with the latched hood.
Once its close then I can begin adding in some set screws along the bottom edge of this panel. No way to dial this in accurately with the fender; just be guessing and guessing wrongly.
A ways to go but I'll eventually have this front group dialed in and gapped around this latched hood. Continuing on with the process.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[jjeffries]

Hi Justin, from Connecticut, I wanted to let you know I’m following all your posts … master classes as far as I’m concerned. so between Roy and me, you have at least two Limeys keenly paying attention. Each installment reminds me how complicated these simple little cars are to repair properly.

best as always, John

[JTR70]

Hi John, Sorry for the late response I've been dealing with a family issue that we all face eventually. Thank you so very much for all the great words of encouragement through this build. It is appreciated more than know. My very best to you! Justin

[roy mawbey]

A lot of people would have given up on getting to where you are now Justin on the cars front crash damage. It really makes you realise just how many things have to be considered and thought about no wonder some restorations, cost so much to do. Well done indeed!

Roy

[JTR70]

Hey Roy, Agree, to get past all the old rust and crash damage sometimes requires going a little deeper than you planned on or a comfortable with when you first start out. It just depends on how right you want it and how much you're going to rely on undercoating or filler to hide the corners that were perhaps cut in the process. We are shooting for an honest body both in and out here.
Thank you once again!! Justin

[JTR70]

I'm behind a few weeks and will try catching this back up.

Slight change in plans:
Initial plans where to save the inner contours of the original nose but as this process went it became apparent that they too were still tweaked towards the right and the remains of the right side headlight opening really favored that direction of impact. This meant more time than I could justify messaging that all out versus installing a new complete panel ready for fitment.

I taped out both sides at the factory joint and cut them free.
I like to save as much original metal where possible but again I couldn't justify the time it would take to jigsaw the nose back together.
Besides I have my hands full enough just getting all this to fit as is with a nice gap...
and a nice continuing profile shape off the end of that hood and on through this new nose.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[roy mawbey]

Hey Justin pleased you are back, a few weeks ago saw on our news your area had a huge storm? I could not work that out as I thought it was all very dry and hot in Las Vegas where you are? I have never been any where near Las Vegas but did wonder if all was okay. Good decision on the new front looking very good. Tell me the the bottom part of the fender wheel arch you will have to cut to match will have to be 'wired' Will you weld a length of wire to do that?? Thats not an easy job to get right, even the dimensions have to be perfect. I guess the Carrera 356 might help with a template? The more I think about that wired edge and form the more difficult it becomes to see how to do it. I know there are machines that can do wiring but thats impossible.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy, the brunt of that storm flanked my area for the most part. Further south like Death Valley and Palms Springs really took the hit. We do get rain on occasion and being monsoon season now, this is our "wet season"; relatively speaking of course. I preserved the entire wire opening lip on the fender though the cut is close. I'll cut the new nose back eventually for a butt-weld once I have the nose located in its final position and absolutely my coupe will be the reference. Thanks again! Justin

[JTR70]

Begin fitment of the nose with the new forward wall flange.
Now onto getting these two new panels to mate up all the while holding the nose in the sweet spot against the latched hoods edge.
Width of the mating surface marked out for transfer to the inner closing wall.
That width marked out for trimming on top and etched along the bottom for rebending. I left it on the tall side for further adjustment options.
initial roughed in trim and rebending. Relief cuts needed to make the turn.
Went through this procedure on the coupster project so no surprises; all par for the course.

[JTR70]

Wall and nose fitment continued:
First of many test fits as fine trimming of the leading edge progressed for shoulder clearance and a flush fit for the mating surfaces.
Fitment eventually improved and progressed enough to allow the hood to latch. Its small wins like this that keeps the hope alive.
Hood latches and clears the edge for the first time but the gap is all over the place and the nose is off center just a touch.
I also have an underbite going on here. All expected and all par for the course; I'd have been shocked if it all fit nicely on the first series of tries.
All dismounted again for another round of fine trimming along the edge to lower the nose a touch to improve the gap width against the latched hood. The real trick is not to get frustrated and just start hacking and taking too much off. Slow and steady at it goes.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin this area of work is beyond being simple as you say, a great deal of thought needs to be applied. I know you have been down this road before and the experience is so essential. Its why,I find this particular restoration so interesting because it puts into perspective, exactly what , excellent body shops have to contend with . Its not usual to ever see, this amount of detailed breakdown of how to attempt this. In many years of looking, these complicated areas of body work repair have never been so clearly explained, due of course, to your excellent step by step photo's . Years ago that was not possible and multible photos of a decent size are invaluable to get the full picture.

I am glad I am not alone in reading about your efforts I hope the owner understands just what is involved.

Well done
Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks Roy, even with the luxury of almost endless digital photos this is still only a small window into the process. I think it would become too tedious if it was any more detailed than this; as matter of fact I do edit some shot out as I feel it maybe too detailed at times. I'm glad to hear that you're not finding it too cumbersome to follow. Justin

[jjeffries]

Roy, agreed. I’ve probably said it here before, by now I understand why the old shop owner at a shop near Philadelphia wouldn’t sell a twenty-something version me a rusted 356A in his yard, back circa 1992. He knew it was way beyond me. 911’s are like erector-sets (or, Meccano) by comparison.

John

[JTR70]

That shop owner cheated you out of a real education John. I've been at it to this degree for about 25 years now and I'm still learning and also forgetting a little as I go as well. I've even had to refer back to my old posts to try and remember what I had done to get past a certain sticking point I'm embarrassed to admit. Agree, 911's are much more forgiving with all the unboltable panels.

[roy mawbey]

Yes John that guy was kind to you! In the 60's when I started looking for a 356 there were a lot of horror's I came across and thank goodness I waited till thr right one came along. I too wou;d have been in real trouble if I had bought one of those real rusty wrecks !
Roy

[JTR70]

Back then Roy you were spoiled for choice. It would have been complete insanity to rebuild the hulks that are now considered "nice projects" these days.

This front end has been quite the challenge so I've been unmotivated to rehash it as of late but I'm winning so I'll get some updates in a day or two. Thanks for stopping by to check you guys! Justin

[JTR70]

Next series of mock ups and fine trimming to get the new nose to sit in just the right mounted spot.
Forward closing wall was remounted and the nose was allowed to move a little closer still into the needed position. Clamped and dismounted for another round of fine trimming.
conservatively trimmed and the mock up was repeated once again to see where the gap and alignment with the edge of the latched hood was.
Closer but not quite there yet. The mating surfaces were at least close enough for a set screw.
Dismounted again and ready for another trim for clearance along this shoulder for a flush mating surface fit. A very tedious and repetitive stage but this was the dialing in process.
As the trimming process went now was as good a time as any to begin pinching the leading edge over as originally done. Door skin installer worked nicely for this little chore. The edge was then followed up with a hammer/dolly to tighten it further. It was a nice break in the monotony. More later...
Thanks for looking!

Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin, very interesting process to get this trimming correct. My eagle eyes spotted the tool I had never seen before the ' the door skin installer ' which you mentioned in the last paragraph. Never seen one before or not noticed one in use. I can see exactly why that would work well! I think I could modify a tool Ihave to do that never seen one form sale or not realised what it was for.

No easy task but its really coming along well !!!

Roy

[JTR70]

I bought that from the Eastwood Co. a few years ago Roy. Its been a very useful flange crimping tool and does a clean job of closing them tight. Thanks again! Justin

[JTR70]

Nose fitment continues:
Nose set screwed into next staged position with the hood fully latched.
Gap at the center starts out ok but soon closes up as it makes its way around on both sides.
Overbite is reducing with a better profile but a ways yet to go.
The left side gap and contour shape was matching pretty well from the start but the right side by contrast was all over the place with a problematic transition along that right lower turn.
I wrestled with the fitment a for while but it was becoming clear that left side fender was now interfering due to the overlap. This was only one a several problems I'd later figure out as the nose fitment continued. Covering some of that next.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Left fender removal:

Taking a step back to move forward.
After much debate I decided that the left fender was now in the way and complicating the final nose placement. Factory spot welds all drilled out here. Had there been no rust issues at the rear leading edge of this fender and the lateral gap with the hood still been within spec I would have certainly worked around it but after factoring in its current state the prudential thing was removal.
The typical rust down run the leading edge of the fender with swelling at the antenna. Lots of sleeping rot that hasn't breached yet but the entire run needs cleaning and repair. Once this eventual patch panel was factored in there would be very little "connective tissue" holding this fender on. Just the short run across the cowl highlighted in marker for cutting.
Fender removed and though it does not look like it my life got a lot easier.
Clear shot at the splash pan for cleaning and rust repairs. Rusty of course but not as rotted as I suspected but I'll know more once I start cleaning. Cowl was cut matching the right side for the best access to back for planishing once its rewelded.
Fender lip peeled and removed in one shot. Just keeping my options open for a smaller repair. Again I'll know for sure once this rust is cleaned off to see how much steel is left.