1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

[JTR70]

3/25/18
Begin Harvesting right rocker assembly.
Going to repair and re-use the original rockers so I began melting the lead at the factory joints. Of course some surprises awaited.


Knew the leading edge was rusty but once the lead was removed it wasn't as good as I thought.


A big volume of lead came out here so this hole was leaded shut some time back.

Removing the lead at the rear joint.

So far so good

until I turned the corner. My initial intent was to leave as much of the original lead work as possible but my confidence in it is really being shaken. I'm now worried what lurks underneath the rest of this run.

spot welds and seam welds broken as removal continues tomorrow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JOP]

What Justin, you dont like suprises
It is really nice to see untouched metalwork on a 356... I mean like your rockers with werk weldings...then that somone added some lead later but that you still can trail back to day one of the 356 making
Thx

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

I just wonder how many 356 cars have large rust holes under lead? As you say, you do think doesn't look so bad at all and probably would it stay that way for a long time, until you just have to find out what's under that lead. ( Many would have left it alone )

I somehow think, you were not that surprised at all to see the hole.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Lead is applied by tinning the steel for bonding. That induces an acid into bare metal, but that rarely causes the rust under the lead filler. It's the overlaps that begin the rusting process as moisture infiltrates through or around the asphaltic undercoating (especially as it dries and shrinks, cracks and flakes) and the untreated, un-primed bare steel begins to revert to iron oxide from the back side. Nature's way.

Lead is there much longer than the steel it's on as long as it's perimeter is still there. For fun and posted before, I like to save the lead as it is melted off the 356 and then smelt it and shavings saved from repair into a bar to be used again on the 356's new repairs or replacements.

If it do that and the same things happens again in another 50 or 60-some years from now.....it can be guaranteed I will not notice...anything.

-Bruce

[jjeffries]

Bruce, Justin et al: beyond the issues of lead toxicity, how does the metal body solder available today compare to the stuff applied in the days of yore, such as what Justin in pulling off this coupe? Any better or worse, or just a bit different? Thanks, John

[bbspdstr]

John, I have seen/noted/sensed changes in the ingredients since the negative press began and 'real' lead was compromised. Some say there are sources that can sell the real 70/30 and there are others who have tried to push "non-lead" lead. I get bars from a recycler in Philly that seem to work well. He gets his lead from batteries and yet doesn't reveal the sources of his tin. I find the saving and reusing of the original works best and "if it was good enough for Porsche, it's good enough for us."

That all said, most problems and 'issues' with lead are from "operator error." The right flux, the right mix of ingredients and the patience and rhythm of the heating and paddling are all key to success. It is a difficult art to master. If that doesn't work after some practice, plastic filler is a better bet. The good ol' boys called everything that filled a low area "cheating" anyway.

Use leather gloves, wash hands before eating and wear a respirator and all other protective gear and one can be fairly safe from lead's toxicity.
-Bruce

[JTR70]

I like Pleasant surprises Per.

Most of that run has gone through with tiny holes along the edge Roy so I knew I'd be replacing most if not all of it but since the car has already been through media blast I got caught in kind of a lull believing I've seen all the cancer that this car has to offer. Problem is the lead holds up well under this process so once its melted out a few more of her dark secrets are revealed. Now I'm a little concerned about what could be lurking under the rest of that old lead.

Thanks Bruce! I do and have taken those precautions in the past. Also fortunate enough for me that I don't deal or work with it on a regular basis.

John, I buy the 70/30 lead/Tin sticks from Eastwood. A few guys here have used the lead-free version which BTW is a bit more money than the 70/30 version. I've had great results with 70/30 so I'll keep with what has worked. Only problem is they go fast and before you know it you have to order more.

3/30/18
Right Rocker nearly out.

Trying to preserve this rocker so carefully harvesting. Zipping it just ahead of the lap joint here. The inner pan its attached to is of course shot so trying to keep all the cutting to the bad side.

A few years back I would have been scared to cut through those wire lips but with the coupster experience its not so scary.

Cutting it ahead of the lap joint to the fender side and will add a new section on when it comes time to reinstall.

Cut free at the lower hinge boss. Attached in a lot of places.

Seam welds along the threshold split. Sooo thank full they didn't spot weld the rocker flange here; this is so much easier.

All that remains now are several gas welds deep in the corners which will be tricky to cut without hacking into the rocker itself. Anyway should have this free by tomorrow.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

4/1/18

Right rocker out.

Finally got the last of the connective tissue severed for a full removal.

Extracted with almost all of the edges and corners intact.

It will need some lovin' but its still a solid savable piece overall.

Remains of the upper longitudinal run exposed for removal

Clipped and just need to grind and peel the remaining flange next.

The rust in and around the conduit runs deep.

A look inside shows how far the cancer goes.

While assessing continued it became clear that the lower hinge boss will have to come out.

The closing panel its attached to is rust out right at the foot of it

and in behind it. No option, to get a clean shot in behind here it needs to come off. Lots to do before this can be closed back up.

Begin template for the forward tray.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

It never ceases to amaze me how area's rust out. Just as well you know how to get round all these jobs now.

Roy

[Scott B]

Looks like you got a number of nice reference points and landing pads for new metal. Amazing how pristine some areas are and two inches left or right you can see daylight. Makes want to twice about washing and driving in the rain when these cars are done and on the road.

[JTR70]

Scott, barring the apocalypse these cars won't be subject to the elements as in years past.

Its a mixed bag here Roy as a lot of the car is surprisingly well preserved like the heater conduits and the bulkhead supports. The rot on the perimeter walls does not go that high either but in the areas where it did rust out it really got advanced; Again its mixed.

Justin

4/4/18
Clearing things away for room to work.

Lower hinge boss removed for a clear shot at the rust in behind it.

Basic paper template done so the remains of the inner tray floor was removed next.

My preference would have been to save this inner closing wall as the rust was repairable in through here.

It only rusted out at the lap joints.

In the end I had to remove it for clear access to weld and dress the new inner tray section when that time comes. I'll get the remains of its spotted mount flange later.

While planning and assessing all of this I noticed that the OG mount flange ("X") remains here are a touch wider than the standard vendor repair offerings. I'd like to replicate that so I needed to determine if that is only in this area or the entire run.


Fortunately I have this original Floor section from a 58 coupe for detail reference. As you can see it was crashed severely in the front and its got some rust in the corners but otherwise this would have been a killer drop in piece for this project as the tunnel is still with it and its otherwise very solid and its an original floor! That's too sad

As you can see the lower flanged wall sections are intact. Everything is here that I'm prepping to replace. again too sad....

Going to compare the flange width on this one to determine what I'll eventually do.

Note the drain holes on the lower gusset.

Not found on this car.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

4/6/18

Touching bottom on rust removal in the door well.

Last strip of rot in this area just about ready.

Finally past all the unsavable metal in this corner. So relieved that bulkhead around the heat tube isn't shot like on the old coupster.

Think I can backfill those two small holes to the right there without a patch section.

Back to the template for a matched shape along the vertical wall. Should have this tray in steel by tomorrow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

4/8/18

New tray in steel

Paper template developed enough to go to metal.

First a rough mock up with the new longitudinal closing panel. Learned the hard way to check all of together as it goes.

Main concern was the flange heights from this forward in relation to the threshold flange.

Fun to see this closed up

but a ways yet to go.

Basic pan now in metal.

A lot of fine tuning but I can at least work with this piece.

Another check of the flanges. cockeyed at the moment but it will all change as it goes and well within striking distance.

Continue fine tuning tomorrow. Fresh closing panels sure brighten things up.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Don't you think the best thing ever invented for 356 use was the rotisserie? In this particular case you can take your time stand back and see exactly where the repair is going.So nice to see what your are doing Justin.

My car still has its original longitudinal's or actually 90% of them.
To repair them took me so long, car on an angle no hoist and me in the pit below. The repair still looks excellent over 40 years on but your method today looks fantastic in comparison. See the good old templates again Justin. They make life so much easier!!

Its a great thread this one just like all your others

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks Roy! No, I could not imagine doing chassis repair on one of these cars without a rotisserie. Mixed results at best and I'd be far more inclined to cut corners to get out from under it as quickly as I could.
Thanks again!
Justin

4/9/18
Fine fitment

Bending and tapering to improve the fit.

Had to taper the end and weld the corner to get the right approach angle.


Tapper allowed the needed forward movement to seat in even and tight. Will add that slight step detail at the leading edge before its over.


New pan section is pretty much ready to go.

Begin making the secondary closing wall.

Making sure Flange width and other details replicated.

Make one in metal tomorrow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin