Original 356A solinoid stuck for the first time.

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

Weekend jacked up the car changed the engine oil. Lowered the car to after doing this noted I had overfilled it on the dip stick.

Before raising it again to take some oil out of the sump tried to start the car. All I got was click each time from the factory original solinoid. Removed the excess oil from the sump still had just the click. Next day after 2 more tries it fired up. Has started each time since no problem.

But.. if it sticks again when out somewhere would have to push it!!

I know the solinoid has 2 coils and 2 contacts that can become very dirty probably over 46 years!!

I have seen info where the solinoid cover is un-soldered and the contacts can be cleaned. I have the original starter motor and the solinoid has the 12mm wide copper earthing strap ( rather than a thick wire) to the starter internals I see on some motors.

I have a normally a fast cold turn over but the hot start is slow but always starts the car. I have renewed or cleaned to perfection all the earthing points battery, transmission, etc and all the connections are clean to the regulator, and ignition switch and I fitted new bush in the transmission.

The brushes are new, the commutator looks perfect. So I really wonder if the solinoid contacts are the problem.

Now for my question.

How and where is the solinoid cover soldered?? How to release it and how to re-solder it, without damaging the coils?

Would you say its not the thing to do just buy a new solinoid?
It would seem the solinoid is different from the early cars to the B and C version.

Anybody done this job or can advise?

Roy

[JTR70]

I'm sure someone more qualified than me has the answer Roy but I can remember tapping the side of a troublesome solenoid with a hammer to get it to free up again. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.
Justin

[neilbardsley]

I'm sure someone more qualified than me has the answer Roy but I can remember tapping the side of a troublesome solenoid with a hammer to get it to free up again. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.
Justin

I thought that only worked with the kids?

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Tapping it was the first thing I did after it just clicked. It made no difference at that time but left overnight it started after just 2 clicks. I was more than surprised by that. I know I can buy relay's to put into the wire from battery to solinoid but maybe thats a sticking plaster. I don't think its the ignition switch contacts but suspect more the solinoid ones.

I must find the reason to be sure. Thanks for your thoughts. I will have to establish good voltage readings too with my old AVO meter. Thats probably nearly as old as me but like me so far it still works.

Roy

[neilbardsley]

"I know I can buy relay's to put into the wire from battery to solinoid but maybe thats a sticking plaster."

I recently had this type of relay removed from my car. It came with a fuse, next to the relay, which was occasionally blowing.

Strange that it worked after sitting overnight? Something to do with cooling down?

[roy mawbey]

Neil,

Cooling might have something to do with it. When I used the car and did not have the problem I drove it into the garage hot and just turned it off. Then the next day after lifting it on the jack and changing the oil the problem started after lowering it down to take it out. Temperature might well influence something if it expands. There is of course a piston movement as well in the solinoid to push the pinion towards the flywheel. Some have said that can get dirty qand bind up so they lubricate with high temp grease. Have never done that!

Maybe its points in the solinoid or the piston. Have to establish somehow or other!

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

The perfect link to repair the 'clicking solinoid ' problem. Very similar construction to the 356.

Un Soldering the connections allows removal of the end cap!! The cap is not soldered at all.

http://www.aircooledtech.com/solenoid_repair/

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Okay guys, I remembered I took some photos last year of my last starter motor removal.

I have had the suspicion from memory the end cap of the solinoid is metal on my original version not plastic like the one shown in the last input link I put on a week or so ago.

I have now found the photos I took and I attach them. Anyone??? please advise me if the end cap with the main electrical connection bolts is rivited on ( you can see the round headed rivits? I was hoping they would be screws

If those are removed I guess I can get the cap off to clean the contacts like shown in my previous last thread input.

Maybe I could put nuts and bolts in their place.

But not sure don't want to go down the wrong road. All the latest 356 replacements seem to be for starters with later additions.

Anyone cleaned the solinoid contacts on the version below????






Never easy sometimes!!

Roy

[JTR70]

Roy, I wouldn't be afraid to grind off those rivet heads and have a look inside. Replacement screws with some red locktight would work just fine or I'm sure you could find a local service there to spank some new rivets in for you. Rivets used to intimidate me too until I began working with them on speedster top frames and such. Grind one side flush and punch it though.

[roy mawbey]

Thanks Justin, Yes that's the way I will approach it but I am aware the pull in on the solonoid by the coil of the electromagnetic switch has to set correctly as the end of the switch is pushed to contact on the copper contacts within that metal cap I want to remove. I will mic the flange width as I believe they have gaskets on that flange. I am sure you are right a smear of red hermatite and bolts and screws should work. ( The version shown in my post of a week or so ago has 2 screws only holding the plastic cap and the soldered connections so the forces must be light really.

We will see just can't trust the car till that ' click ' is resolved.
Trouble is you can't really prove you have fixed it. But as your know I like 56 year old carpets so the old solinoid I am attached to

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Sorry to be late to this party and not see something from Jack.

I'll just say that I have not needed to open the solenoid on those old buggers even once in my 50 years with them, but bopped 'em a few times to wake 'em up.

I would, not knowing the history of this, check the bushing for the starter and the contacts for the ignition switch, as they, like all other 50+ year old parts, are always suspect. I have been seeing more and more switch failures, some intermittent. With a rebuild, I put another "hard start" solenoid inline to take the load off the switch contacts.

I'd also see if pushing the car a tad in gear would make it function better if you can recreate the "click" again, as Bendix gears and flywheel teeth can get peened over time and all you'd get would be that 'click.'

I'd also check date and condition of the battery, as an overnight rest could bring up the voltage and all 6v parts are very susceptible to voltage deficiencies

Good luck,
-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Bruce,
Replaced the starter bushing, every earth on the starter circuit and on those to the body. Brushes all okay, commutator all okay or it looks good.
The ignition switch contacts I have considered, but with the electrical tests I can carry out I can remove that from the equation.

I will be making first the motor run separately when removed from the car and then a test on the solinoid. Might not prove much because like you I gave the solinoid a thump or two after the dreaded ' click' it responded several click later.

I am going to get that end cover off and look at the square angled copper contacts inside the cap and the main one on the moving shaft.

If.. they are not really carbonized and if the motor runs strong then the ignition is a factor. Just got to get round to doing it. I will report back though with some photos when I do it. ( I hope to find them really dirty and burnt !!)

Roy