primer for the 356

[badsix]

hey, I still use a binks #7 and a devilbiss mbc and jga's. Although my boy brought his sata down for me to use, I didn't like it at first. I don't like the cup sticking up in my way, but the more I use it the more I like it. I think the paint suits help a lot if we would of had them back then it sure would have been a big improvement. it always amazed me that sometimes you can turn out a high quality job in a dirty old garage. I've seen several paint jobs done in a garage that would compare to some of the best pros out there. not to long ago I did a dump truck cab and they are a pain in the but to shoot. It was at this guys shop and it wasn't close to good painting conditions. we wet the floor down and had a couple of small fans going then I chased every one out. when I was finished I could not believe how dirt free and nice it was. JUST GOT LUCKY ONE MORE TIME! I don't smoke but sometimes a BUD-LITE between coats is just right.

[JTR70]

I too used a Binks #7 until about 10 years ago. I was sold on the gravity feed performance immediately and I hung up that old syphon gun for good and never looked back. The gravity feed guns are so much more efficient with far less paint being lost as overspray. I would compare it to retiring a daily driver '74 Ford 4X4 pick-up with a Honda Civic. Paint like gasoline is far too expensive so economy becomes a major consideration. My first gravity feed gun was (is) a cheap 65.00 HVLP gun from Harbor Freight. I later bought a more expensive Sharpe but I tell you that cheap old gun I bought is my workhorse and is still going today. Best bang for the buck out there.

[bbspdstr]

This is getting far too technical for me! BTW, what's the best brand of flypaper?

Seriously, what I see in this thread is a conversation between kindred spirits called "combo men," a vanishing breed in professional bodywork.

To refer to another site may be helpful, as the Samba has a poster, Jon, who goes by 'the metal surgeon.' A talented man, rightfully proud of his abilities and a quote; "know what's under your paint."

Paint is what everyone sees when all is done, but that is what I call the "fun part." People ask me "how much is a paint job?" and I answer that "it's worth about 3 hours....but the prep is unknown."

I've been truly blessed to have had training from older guys who were cross-trained. They could do frame work, square a chassis, weld really well, straighten metal, do lead filler, prep and paint....all like it was nothing; "What? Can't any good bodyman do the whole job?"

When I started, I hired my teachers; those few guys (now long gone) were looking to pass along their knowledge and experience AND make a buck in early retirement. The shops they had grown up in were closing. Panel replacement shops were coming along and there was not much 'fixing' being done. Lead was phased out and plastic was king (too much of Mrs. Robinson's husband's advice to Dustin Hoffman) Those old boys derisively called plastic- "straightener in a can."

As an aside, there was a 'wagon peddler' in the Philadelphia area named Curt Strohacker who bought up the "obsolete" tools and supplies from the area supply houses and came around to shops like mine that still used 'the good stuff.' He eventually found less and less shops buying his wares and started a mail-order business to broaden his market...it's called Eastwood, and Curt has done VERY well for himself.

In a conversation with him a few weeks ago, it was revealed that he is about a year younger than I am, a depressing thought unless I retire and take a job with him, as his big warehouse and store is about a mile from my home!

Back to the business/hobby of restoration: "Specialists" were emerging from Vo-Tech schools...but when I'd try to hire a younger person, I had to be careful...the placement office people would qualify every graduate as 'tops in their class' (sorta like every customer I have ever had is #1) and maybe 3 out a class of 30 would have enough innate talent to be trainable. The one that was most naturally possessing of talent was fought over....yes, I've even used the sports and business world's technique of a 'signing bonus.'

Truly, not many of those would have thought on their own of hanging flypaper in a paintshop......that technique has to be taught!

-Bruce

[MMW]

I must say I am very stuck in my ways on everything so to hear how much better a gravity gun is vs. a syphon does not sit well. I have used a syphon type for 25 yrs. although very little anymore. My main use was priming & sometimes painting weldments in a fab shop. We always said it was a protective coating not a paint job but I will say I could lay down some nice looking jobs.

My son has been telling me I'm crazy for not trying a gravity type as that is all anyone uses anymore. I remember when I knew it all & my Dad didn't know much but now it seems the tables have turned. Maybe a young guy can teach a middle aged guy of 51yrs new tricks? I need to listen more, shame on me.

[badsix]

I here you! my youngest boy works in a body shop near a big city and does real well. He can do everything from painting to frame work, but he likes the body work the most. He would work for me when he was 12 years old to when he went off to school. I taught him everything I could, now when he comes home he teaches me. I've learned a lot form him its been great. ps I still like the old school guns and set up properly they will shoot just as good as anything.
Jay D

[JTR70]

Great stories Bruce. Your description of "combo men" rings true. My late mentor Greg fits that description perfectly. He was a very competent mechanic and had a great mind for problem solving and thinking outside the box. He was also a painter in the '70's though by his own admission did not posses the patients for fine detail which was needed for real quality work. He used to say he was better suited for small insurance repair jobs rather than show quality restorations. However, overall he was quite competent in all areas of auto repair and fabrication and was a great teacher. Just like with your mentors, you and I were most fortunate to cross paths with this very rare breed!

Mic and Jay, I completely understand your hesitance to leave the syphon gun behind. Resistance to new an unfamiliar things (even if its for the best) is just human nature and we are all guilty of that to varying degrees. People try new things when they are ready and not before...

For anyone else toying with the idea of moving to a gravity feed gun the best jumping off point is this cheap 65.00 spray-gun from Central Pneumatic. The one pictured above is my first HVLP gun I bought 10 years ago which is still doing the job and lays down a nice coat. The original plastic cup gave up years ago but this alloy one from my Sharpe gun mounted right on. For the price you can't go wrong weather you continue to use it or not...

[badsix]

SOME OF MY OTHER GUNS

[badsix]

[badsix]

[badsix]

[bbspdstr]

What? No 'Pre-val'? No paint pot arrangement for those non-stop marathon paintjobs? Nice collection!

Holy crap, I'm away for a while and I come back to see that fantastic collection of spray-things. Some I've had, most I'd never seen. Cool! Thanks for sharing those pictures from your 'museum.'

Here's another one of my stupid boring stories...as brief as I can. Maybe 6 years ago, I got a notice...yes, a warning... that I was to get a visit from the EPA. I was sent lots of paperwork (Basically, their 'rules'), so I took a train to see my son and his family for a day in NYC from Philly and read the paperwork up and back.

1) Got bodyshop zoning...check.
2) Can't buy anything in PA through the usual vendors/jobbers that doesn't pass VOC requirements...check.
3) They'll want to see the area where I spray and my equipment....hummmm.

When they got there a couple of weeks later, my #7 and other old guns (being used or not) were off-site and only gravity HVLP guns were hanging in the gun rack/cabinet. Things were neater and cleaner than usual.

The inspectors were fine, and only wanted to know what I did with the waste, left-overs and clean-up.
I told them I let catalyzed product cure and solidify and added that to my usual waste (OK in PA) and the rest became mixed with 'undercoat' in a friend's bump-n-grind shop nearby after a 5-gal pail was filled, thus 'recycled.'
They checked their list off all affirmative and left happy. Not bad for a place that does paintwork in a side room with a fan, a plastic curtain under some furnace filters and a floor wet with water when spraying....(mostly with Sata guns.)

BTW, with a reference to imbibing between coats, please let me say this:.....it has been my experience over almost 50 years that the best painters (and pinstripers) I've know did their best work after a 6-pack (or more). Drugs were a different story. Only one guy who smoked pot could paint for me...OK, maybe two....but they were just 'relaxed' and like the beer, it 'took the edge off' so they didn't worry about the act of painting. It's just like now.....without any drugs or alcohol, my painters and I find that if we try too hard, the results aren't as good as when you just don't give a ........

[JTR70]

That is a really interesting collection of guns! The glass cups and the various atomizing nozzle configurations were really fun to look at. thanks Jay!

Bruce, it can get really sticky dealing with all the BS rules once you're on their radar. This too reminds me of a story Greg told me concerning the CA EPA. As a body shop they had this certified catch basin for gun-wash and waste. Estimating the number of cars they did per month there was a level the catch basin had to be at to avoid a penalty. If it was too low it meant to state that they were putting too much VOC into the air thus triggering a fine. I Think it was about a 100 bucks at the time. If the basin ran low for whatever the reason Greg's answer was to pour a gallon of lacquer into the tank to bring it up. He'd say which is cheaper a 10.00 gallon of thinner or the fine? The moral of this story being that its just a game of cat and mouse to keep them out of your pockets as much as possible as you well know. Interesting too I remember him saying that 99% of all the career bodymen that he ever knew were either drug addicts or alcoholics. He always felt there was link with the chemicals like the reducers for paint that eventually fostered a dependence. He would joke and say that guys would start underbidding jobs just so they could be around the thinners. He'd always used to kid me before I'd paint something for him or for me and say "getting ready to stick the needle back in"? Fortunately for me I never had a taste for alcohol.... or for any other drug... Just paint thinner.

[bbspdstr]

....Interesting too I remember him saying that 99% of all the career bodymen that he ever knew were either drug addicts or alcoholics. He always felt there was link with the chemicals like the reducers for paint that eventually fostered a dependence.

I blamed my second partner's dependence on drugs to his going to 'Nam. He was a great painter and one of the best all-around car guys I've ever known, knew Porsches intuitively. I met him through his having a 356.....but uppers were needed to counter the downers and vice versa. He finally was found to be shooting up and we parted ways, a very unfortunate turn of events for me in the '70s. I asked why he wouldn't seek help anywhere but the VA and found the waiting room at the hospital was a swap-n-sell for drugs and he could get all the methadone he wanted anyway.....so I asked why he didn't want to deal with reality and he replied "Man, reality sucks!" Waste of talent...and I moved on...

In my second largest operation in the late '80s, I sublet space to a professional detailer. A talented young guy that worked for him came to me one day and asked if he could try painting. I was about to spray the repaired hood of a metallic gray 930 Turbo and thought I'll let him try that. HE WAS A 'NATURAL'! He wound up deserving my only down draft and eventually his own separate paint department. He spun off after I sold that business entity in '93 and he worked for a place closer to his home that specialized in BMW and race cars. Eventually, he began to call me at shop or home, and with slurred speech he'd ask me for money (which I politely declined giving to him). That stopped and a few years ago, I found that he had gotten so bad with drugs and alcohol that he had brain damage and was a 'vegetable'.....with a wife and two children. Another waste of an immense talent.

What a damned shame for the both of these two examples. Watching my contemporaries in '60s,'70s and younger guys in the '80s and '90s was an education in what NOT to do! (Including what not to do when painting!)