Engine/ Transmission removal

[Porscheke]

Hi

Maybe a stupid question :

Is it possible to remove the engine + transmission in one go from a 356A?

-Disassemble electric cables, hoses carb, linkage heaters
-Remove the hoop at the 2 points at the body
-Disassemble the 2 shafts.
-Disassemble the 2 transmission mounts from the body


Can the complete setup (engine + transmission) shift this much backwards so everything can come out at once?

Grts
Bart

[Jbrooks]

Bart

Why?? Four bolts hold the engine to the trans. The trans hoop is easier accesses with the engine out. You can always put them back together after they are out.

I have been doing this for over 50 years and have never had a reason to drop them together.

[JTR70]

It is possible to but as John said its really tough to get at the hoop bolts down deep behind the dog house (fan Shroud).The hoop mount cover plates might prove tough to remove as well with the engine in the way.

[Porscheke]

Ok, thanks for the input

This will be my first 356 engine/ transmission drop.
Then we remove first the engine

I'm familiar with the 911/ 964 models were it's roughly 4 bolts loose and engine & transmission can come out at once (ok, you need to loosen also linkage and hoses, drive shafts,...)

If you compare the design with the 911 & later air cooled models this is a strange design engine is supported at one side only

Learning every day on these cars

[JTR70]

I see, you where approaching it like a 911, that makes sense.
We're always learning something new about these cars too.
Is this car going on a dolly? Remember unlike a 911 with seperate trailing arms an old swing axle requires the trans remain in it if want to keep it mobile.
Justin

[Porscheke]

The plan is to create a rotisserie for the car.

Was looking on the web if there were some drawings with dimensions ...people who did this already ...but didn't find anything usefull...

Will post some pictures when its on the rotisserie

[bbspdstr]

The rear engined predecessor of the 356 was the VW with the pan having the arms out the back for the support of the transaxle. The same man was responsible for the 356, so the same design was carried out differently but the engine still cantilevered off of the trans bell housing.

I have worried about the design strength of the engine case of a later air-cooled VW Typ 4 when installing one of those in a 356. I have fabricated a cross support that fastened to the bumper bracket chassis mounts to support the typical 914 arrangement.

Still, like Brooksey says, in my own 50 years, I have never bothered to attempt a removal of both co-joined 356 units at the same time, as so many clearances need to be considered that are clumsy to coordinate.

Plus, you are balancing and juggling uneven masses. The engine is about 225 lbs and the transaxle is about 150, so it's a heavy and reluctant combo to manage either out or back in.

Good luck,
Bruce


Just remember to mentally check-down all the things to be diconnected from the engine, the easiest to forget being the tachometer cable center-rear, followed by the fuel hose up to the front of the engine on the left side.

It is best to extract the engine when all is level so neither lower stud (of the 2) is bent.

I always smile when I get to remove an engine with a "sport muffler" as then all of the in-out maneuvering has a "handle" to work with.

[Jbrooks]

If you are going to build a rotisserie I would build Gray Emory frame system. I have a bumper mount system, it works fine, but Gary's frame takes up way less space in the shop, and is easy to push up against the wal to get the car out of the way. The below link has the plans. Also he is having a weekend gathering of the faithfull in July at the end of the Parade.


http://www.emorymotorsports.com/workshop

[Porscheke]

Hi

Thanks for the link. Already saw this setup....but not fully convinced.


I was more thinking on this kind of setup:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579964

[JTR70]

That is a stout set up but alot more required fabrication. One drawback I see is with both the length runners on the base as well as the craddle getting in the way at times as metal work progressed.

[Jbrooks]

That is a nice setup, espically if you want to do a big American 50's convertible some day. Your 356 with the running gear removed might weigh 1400 pounds. That thing is still pretty long and will always be in they way. I went the overkill route on my first one. It worked fine but it was big and always in the way. Having seen Gary's frame in action several times, my opinion is still it's the way to go

[Porscheke]

Yes, I know this one from the samba forum is maybe a little overkill

When the 356A is completely empty, would it be possible/ advised to mount a rotisserie only on the front and rear bumper mounts?
These area's are only "thin" metal tubes/cases

Jbrook; you mentioned you did it this way....did it work...or did you some damage afterwards on the metal tubes/cases were the bumper support in attach?
Do you perhaps have a picture from your setup?

[Jbrooks]

I will take a photo. I built mine from square tubing and pipe. The bumper mounts anchor nuts are not level so when it rotates the needed of flex some. I used C channel cut off the web to fit through the body into the bumper nuts. Now I prefer catching the body at the trans hoop anchors. That area is strong and closer to CG.

It was way over engineered, it held my 6800 pound truck with only 0.070 deflection on the vertical pipe. But you do no need that strength. I also had to make casters for mine, when I had a chassis on it, it was always in the way of other projects.

[bbspdstr]

(no comment)

[JTR70]

My unit is bumper bracket mounted and I've had several 356's on it with no issues but I do like Bruce's attatchment mounts better if given a choice.