Ok, here i go again...

[VirtuallyReal]

Hi,
I'm Manuel Tolentino, a new member of this online community; i live in West Palm Beach, FL, one of the true battlefronts of heat, moisture and, of course, rust.

Since i was a kid, i have this big curiosity and passion for "fixing" stuff with my very own hands, and although my profession (business/marketing/ telecommunications) never required me to do such things, about 2 years ago i turned my attention to the wonderful world of air cooled German classics...

All my life I've been somehow very "specific" when it comes to those particular (material) things that really catch my attention; when it comes to vintage cars, and for as long as i can remember, there has always been two specific vehicles that I've been interested in: the Volkswagen Transporter, and the all mighty Porsche 356 Coupe.

Funny enough, I've never been interested in modern Porsche's whatsoever... don't ask me why... have no idea myself! ...same goes for the 23 window sunroof VW buses that most people seems to love... I just don't like sunroofs, safari windows... and i mean no disrespect (oh boy i hope no one gets offended with this one) but neither i have a particular interest on cabriolets/speedsters...

Somehow the most sought-after models of both the VW buses and 356's are not my thing!

By the beginning of 2015, i finally started doing something about it, by acquiring a 1964 VW Standard Micro-bus (Walk-through), after about a year of research, and about 6 months of "active hunting".

Thank god (and Everett Barnes) for thesamba.com!

Fast forward to 2016: I'm at the final stages of the restoration on my bus, and of course, i'm already thinking on moving to what is to me the natural progression: the Porsche 356 Coupe.

My goal is to find a nice 356 C Coupe that needs some help...

Just as my journey with the VW bus started by researching and trying to LEARN as much as possible about it BEFORE ACTUALLY BUYING ONE, i started by replicating that on the 356 scenario. There's already a certain amount of info on thesamba about the 356, but of course the main focus of that forum are the aicooled VW's, so i was quickly "steered" towards this site for more in-depth info on the 356... I already went through John Pierce's 130 pages of his amazing '63 T6 resto thread... and I really enjoyed it! But of course there's just SO MUCH MORE info here to soak in...

I already like the fact that, like in thesamba, this seem to be a very "friendly neighborhood" to be around, with lots of experienced people willing to help newcomers like me.

...so, here i am... Currently on the market looking for the right 356 project for me (ideally in the FL area), but not in a hurry; preferably looking for a 356 C but keeping an open mind... and overall trying to learn as much as possible in the meantime.

Funny enough, already found a good piece of advise on Mr. Pierce's thread: one of the cars i was considering as a potential candidate was casually mentioned on that very thread (what are the odds!) and the advise was that this particular car would require a much higher investment in the long run, than actually just buying one of the "running cars" currently the market... That immediately made me re-think my strategy, and of course kept me looking for other options.

I'm not exactly afraid of a big resto project: i REALLY ENJOYED and had pretty decent results with the way i ended up tackling the VW bus project, with its ups and downs, but more importantly, i learned A LOT of valuable lessons with it, but the sheer amount of fabrication required on Mr. Pierce's car made me realize that bringing back a 356 in such condition is way more difficult than doing the same with a VW bus... So now I'm still aiming at a car that might need some work, but substantially less than the particular one i was considering to begin with.

Well i guess this covers it... This is me, this is how i got into this amazing hobby, and i would like to thank everyone in advance for the potential help on the years to come, and the valuable advise offered here; hopefully one day I'll be able to repay it by helping others, and passing along the love for classics to the next generation.

God bless you all!

[John Pierce]

Welcome! Aren't air cooled cars great?

You've hit upon what is great about Justin's ABCGT website. It is truly very friendly with lots of helpful people. The "R" is also very helpful and there's a strong community presence there. Most of us also frequent the "R". I use it mostly to do research as it has a great database of past posts.

Have you tried Adam Wright at "Unobtanium" to find a C? He usually has a bunch of restorable cars sitting around which he usually sells on eBay. He's having an open house on September 3rd at his shop: 14 West Shore St. Revena NY 12143; 518-705-1355.

https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


John

[JTR70]

Hi Manuel,

Thank you for joining with us here and Welcome!! Great background story and thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself. I can understand you wanting a project car that you can honestly say you built from scratch but don't be fooled into thinking these presentable cars (like on samba)are too nice to start with. Unfortunately what old Porsches do best is rot out and most old drivers you're going to find are not nearly as nice as they might first appear. Sometimes you get lucky but that's the exception not the rule nowadays. More often than not once you begin breaking the car down of upholstery and layers of paint you'll begin to find a lot of old sin from its checkered past. Usually some deep unaccounted for chassis or closing panel rot or very poorly repaired crash damage like an overlapped brazed on fender section.(on all 4 fenders ) Depending on your budget, if you can get a runner I'd say buy it. Drive it and determine if you really are going to like the car. Sometimes the idea is far more romantic than the reality of a thing.
I'd stay clear of stripped out shells as the cost of accumulating all the correct drivetrain parts and chrome bits etc. will quickly add up big. If your end result is a bone stock correct C coupe buy one that is as complete as possible. Again running or at least limping would be ideal. Be weary of dismantled "basket case" projects as there is always a batch of parts that ends up unaccounted for once the deal is long done. Usually the big money stuff. I love your enthusiasm and I'm not trying to douse your dream I just want to direct your attention to some potential pitfalls. There's plenty of guys here that know a lot more than me that I'm sure will chime in too.
Best of luck on your search and Welcome once again!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Manuel,

Like Justin and John, I see exactly where you are coming from.I also tend to agree with Justin about your first 356. A running or almost running car, is probably a better bet in the long run. I suppose there are a few 356 coupes still sitting in a garage after 40 odd years but not that many. Living in the UK and having driven them now for almost 50 years and in a country the same for rust, as parts of Florida I guess that is the most important point regarding your purchase.

Justin is is so correct advising the rust gets deep into all the difficult area's. Its the hidden area's that make the repairs difficult. A good 356 guy will know exactly where to look for the rust trouble. A good guy will be able to sum up a 356 very quickly on a ramp. A guy with 40 years experience will advise the situation. Sure, as Justin shows, so much is possible these days but spend time looking closely at his resto's. Many, would have given up for sure.

If you found a car that looked realistic and you want to purchase then pay someone who knows, to look at it with you. Your budget is unknown but of course sometimes the more you spend the less work providing the work was done well !! That's the other problem I saw 356 cars with flat steel floor panels welded over rusted through floors in the 1960's, Torsion bar area's virtually missing, holes in battery boxes and sills patched beyond belief. These cars were then only around 12- 15 years old.

You are no different to me in liking a coupe rather than a cab. But..I have come round regarding the speedster, probably just like so many others !!

Best of luck looking make it fun. This forum will help you for sure.

Roy

[VirtuallyReal]

Well, first of all, I really appreciate how welcoming you guys are!

John: already a big fan of your work, I really admire you attention to detail and "OCD'ness" (i can relate!) definitely someone to look up to, thanks for the warm welcome!

Justin: already a huge fan of your site! it is always refreshing to see people doing positive things, driven mostly by the love and passion for preserving something beautiful, and helping so many others along the way; for newcomers like me, being able to obtain expert feedback makes all the difference; not knowing what to do, or even where to look at is, in my belief, one of the main reasons more young people is not involved; yes, this is not exactly the cheapest hobby... although i think that when there's a will, there's a way!

I wish more people like me get to join forums like this! Again, thank you.

Roy: thanks for all the good advise; although I've been active on the forums for a while now, I'm yet to attend my first car show... Therefore, my "face-to-face" connections are still pretty non-existing...

So far i have only met about 4 "classic car" guys in person, 3 mainly related to the VW world (and with whom I don't have the closeness / willingness to ask them to take a 3 hour drive to go and check a car with me), and then there's my go-to-guy, a very talented fellow, with a lot of experience restoring (american) classic cars, but not Germans... He is the guy who (fixed and) finished the metalwork on my bus (after a far-from-great experience with one of the "top VW shops" on FL), and IMO he did a BETTER, more refined job than the "VW experts" did on my bus, so, during that year working on that project together, i can say he has become a true personal friend. I could bring him with me, he definitely knows where to look for rust and imperfections, and is obsessed with gaps and lines/curves... But maybe he lacks the specific 356 expertise.

That brings me to the practical side of things:

1- Is there a "definitive guide" or check list on what to look for when buying a 356?
2- In your opinion, which are the "must have" books someone like me should get right away?


The funniest of things happened to me last night: my wife saw me writing on the forum, and then we got to talk and i commented on the good advise you guys gave me on staying away from basket case projects, and focusing more on drivers, then i showed to her that white 356 C i mentioned earlier, and she immediately said "well what are you waiting for? go for it!". I wasn't really considering to buy that one, and now she has me all pumped up!

That car is 3 hours from where i live, but I'll call the seller today to see if i can get more info on the history of the car, maybe some pictures and details of the recent restoration, and overall see if we can work something out... I like the fact that this particular one has an upgraded and freshly rebuilt engine (only 1,000 miles), new LEATHER interior, new floor pans, new wiring harness, and also it is a 64, just like my bus...

That makes it crucial for me to know what to look for, in case i decide to go and take a look, hopefully within this week.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.Real:

Almost any book by Dr.B.Johnson is an informative experience for starters. There are more, but few deal with structural issues.

But "what to look for" is pretty basic with monocoque (unit body) construction, and you have a good head start with the VW experience.

Longitudinals are a key issue of course, but with the 356 one has the added complication of a heater tube (read: moisture pipe) running though it. X-ray vision is very helpful here; failing that, carry an ice-pick and a small hammer (to take gentle soundings; rusty parts ping differently (flatter) than good steel). The thresholds on top are also a hot spot, as are the boxed constructions at either end.

Other than that, it's the usual stuff; horizontal water catchers (floors, braces at front, etc.), closing panels behind and in front of tires, nooks and crannies, places the water goes when the window seals go bad.

Actually, there is no book that can tell you more than going thru the Restoration threads. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly are all well exposed in their "typical" glory.

The mechanical stuff is a different ball of wax that is best approached with some experience.

In the end, your best diagnostic tool is Common Sense.

Not much help, I know, but it's all I've got, short of writing yet another book.

Keep cool and you'll be alright.

[JTR70]

Thanks again Manual, Always great to hear feedback on the vibe this site is sending out.

As far as must have books for a beginner I'd agree with SJ and say the 356 authenticity guide by Brett Johnson is a very good place to start. That is one book that I do own. As for restoration manuals I've heard that "made by hand again"( forgive me I can't think of the authors name)is a good one and then there is the restoration book by Jim kellog I've seen listed online. To be honest I've never personally even held one of these books in my hand and thumbed through the pages. All my restoration experience has been in real time at the school of hard knocks. I just reversed engineered what I saw and attempted the repair. Sometimes getting it wrong or unsatisfactory 2 or 3 times in the beginning but always learning. Hey, maybe I should have bought one of those guides years ago. I'm sure there is still something I could fine useful in them. Anyway the Authenticity book is a good educational start which will familiarize you with all the models and their basic evolution through the 15 year production run.

[Phil Planck]

Welcome Manual

Some good advice given. Look at prices of rebuilt engines and transaxles. Be prepared to spend that kind of money on the drive train. Replacement panels are available, but many need modification to properly fit. Rust repair is dirty and time consuming. I have to agree with the common answer given to those looking for a 356. Buy the best you can find/afford. Will save you hours of grief and dollars in the long run. It will be worth it to pay for a pre purchase inspection(PPI). Buy a spot rot gauge if you are going to personally look at the car. Good for measuring paint thickness and areas with lots of bondo(or lead).

Phil Planck

[VirtuallyReal]

Thanks guys!

BTW, the name is " M a n u E l ", not " M a n u A l "

[Phil Planck]

Sorry Manuel, I had typed that in, then saw another post with Manual so scrolled up to your original and thought it was written Manual, so changed mine. Anyway, welcome and enjoy the trip.

Phil

[VirtuallyReal]

Don't worry about it Phil, i get that a lot!

My middle name is "Antonio" (= Anthony, = "Tony"), which could make things easier for some folks

Others just call me by my last name...

Either way, it is fine by me.

Back on topic: I'm courious about the spot rot gauge you mentioned... Never seen one... Will have to do a little research about it and how to use it; thanks for the tip!

[JTR70]

OOPS! Sorry about that Manuel. If you look on my original post I had it right the first time. I'm referred to as Jason a lot so I know what you mean.
Justin

[VirtuallyReal]

Hello folks!

Just wanted to inform you that I'm no longer a 356 owner "wanna be":
As of 10/17/16 I'm the proud owner of a 1964 356C coupe!

I got it from Beverly Hills Car Club, Los Angeles CA; they posted the ad on friday night (10/14/16), and on monday morning (10/17/16) i made sure to be the first to call them

I had a very good feeling about that car being the right one for me, so i moved quickly, and by the afternoon, the deal was done!

It is a complete, RUNNING CAR, with all electricals working (even the clock! ), not a numbers matching engine, but with a very good 912 in it. 6 volts, and its staying that way.

Oh, and BTW, it has a manual Golde sunroof! (Not factory for the car, but seems to be an original that was clipped on it).

I already:
- Got the COA (BTW it arrived in less than 2 weeks... that must be a record! ).
- Got the workshop manual (Charlie White's)
- Printed the PET (a must have)
- Bought Mr. Kellogg's "guide to do-it-yourself".
- Bought Mr. Johnson's "a restorer's guide to authenticity".
- Joined the registry.

I believe I'm set off to a good start.

I think this concludes my run over the welcome mat... things definitely got real... and i couldn't be happier!

Now off to start a proper restoration thread; I'm counting on you guys, i know for sure will indeed need all the guidance and help you can give me!

Again, thanks to all for the warmest of welcomes, and for all your advice... it already saved me from buying the wrong car... now let's make this C Coupe great again!

See you all in the restoration thread. In the meantime, here are some pictures.

Tony.

[John Pierce]

Congratulations, Tony!

I see that you uploaded some images. If you hit the insert button for each image they will be visible on the website without having to click on them. The car looks pretty good.....except for that god awful steering wheel How does it run?

You're off to a great start with all the manuals and books.

Are you planning to drive it or restore and drive?

Let us know what we can do to help.


John

[VirtuallyReal]

Congratulations, Tony!

I see that you uploaded some images. If you hit the insert button for each image they will be visible on the website without having to click on them. The car looks pretty good.....except for that god awful steering wheel How does it run?

You're off to a great start with all the manuals and books.

Are you planning to drive it or restore and drive?
Let us know what we can do to help.


John

Hello John,

Already fixed the Photos, thanks!

Initially i felt the same about the steering wheel (it is a "vintage" Racemark Raid), but now that i tried it out, i have mixed feelings! i does look off, but feels really good... i'll probably end up buying a correct one and using both, depending on the occasion...

The car runs great! it really pulls...i need new tires though. Brakes are fine, but in need of some adjustment. Generator will probably need some TLC... it seems to work fine, but i do get the red light from time to time... gotta look into it. First order of business was to replace the bushings on the shift linkage and lever (they have disintegrated, NON-EXISTENT) and i was unable to engage 2nd and 4th... but after replacing all bushings, everything is now PERFECT; all gears engage (no pops). Trans is safe (what a relief that was! )

all in all, a good start i guess.

The plan is to do a complete, rotisserie restoration. i already started disassembly...

Got myself a wet sandblast kit (boy that's gonna be fun!)
Let's see how it goes...

More details soon, on the restoration thread.

Thanks again,

Tony