Radio Free Registry

[spg356]

I structured the question that way because I wanted to hear some fresh ideas about what else the club could be or what else it could do aside from the disagreement about the governance of the club. SJ provided some examples and I would love to hear more.

Hi Jack,

I recall the thread but don't recall the ideas other than keeping the open forum. Full disclosure: I was originally opposed to keeping the forum open, but I can be swayed when I hear good arguments and I heard them. I would love to see the forum open again to see how it goes. If it becomes the wild, wild west then I may be swayed again, but my mind is open.

What other ideas were proposed?

[spg356]

Dear Sebastian, I forgot to state what I feel betterment of the Registry could be like.

To get with the times, I'd suggest a lower fee than hard copy magazine subscription for those who would like to participate online-only. That could appeal to domestic and overseas enthusiasts of all ages. Soon after, the magazine content could be part of a "Members Only" section, perhaps a step process with a slight increase in cost, eventually anticipating transitioning to an either/or of online or hard copy. (Sorry Gordon, but I think we all know that's the way things are going now...PCA is already there.)

As for Regions of the Registry, good luck with that. There are many 356ers within a 100 mile radius of Philadelphia and only about a dozen people (if that) will organize or help with events. I tried last year to organize a simple day-long picnic and cancelled "due to a lack of interest." It seems that age and priorities have changed in the last decade-or-so. 356s are being polished and placed in portfolios, but a low tremor I've sensed very lately is that some 'drives' may be happening this year as our miserable weather clears. Hoo-rah!

If you live in an area with a strong local 356 club, you are very lucky. There should be more. There could be inclusions in any Registry publication similar to PCA's "From the Regions" (more than reporting a specific event) while the local groups remain independent. Tie them together without tying them up. Ecumenicism has never been a Registry strength or preference, but times are a-changin'.

It's all that and more.... or Justin's site will continue to take bigger bites of the Registry's apple. The Free Market will prevail, right?

Thanks Bruce, good stuff. As for Gordon, if we did an online version of the magazine, someone still needs to do everything Gordon does to put it together sans printing. That would just be replaced with working with the webmaster.

I publish the Motor Cities Gruppe newsletter and a few years ago we proposed just doing an online version. It went over like the proverbial fart in church. The OLD GUYS (I am getting there, just turned 52) wanted a paper version to hold onto, perhaps while sitting in the smallest room in their house. Now there are tablets that are just as convenient...

It's a shame that you cannot get the 100+ 356ers organized in central PA. I suppose we are just lucky here in the Detroit area. A strong local group, to me, makes all the difference.

And, I suppose that having a "from the regions" column would require regions, so here we are again.

What else?

[jstenner]

-----

[spg356]

What other ideas were proposed?

It's been, what, 3-4 years since all that happened? I can't remember in detail. Pretty much all of what you're hearing now was discussed back then (and repeatedly thereafter). I recall mentioning how a more fully developed web magazine might involve video interviews with people engaged in the hobby (restorers, vendors, trustees, heros, porsche people, etc.)...before they're gone. We discussed a full featured "registry" database with all the benefits (research being one) that come with doing that well. Honestly, at this point, these are things that shouldn't require twisting someone's arm to have happen. The only reason they can't is because of fear and/or financial entanglement.

Hi Jack,

I love the web magazine idea with the videos! A few years back, Christophorus was including QR tags within an article of the paper magazine. You could scan that with your smartphone/tablet and watch a video that complimented the article. Brilliant!

The database about the cars I agree would be terrific.

Thanks.

Would still love to hear more.

[Bill Sampson]

I happen to agree with SJ that the Internal Revenue Code requirements for the establishment of a 501c7 exemption include the necessity for "commingling" of the members which would necessitate local events. I have insufficient expertise to provide a solid opinion on whether or not the Registry complies although I am certain that the "mentoring" claim came up to assist in that regard.

The two California 356 clubs to which Rosemary and I belong are the Porsche 356 Club (now 356 Club of Southern California) to which we have belonged longer than either of us have belonged to the Registry. We just joined the 356CAR. I KNOW, from having spoken to one of the founders, that one of the ideals of the SoCal group, from inception, was that it specifically did not want to be part of the Registry. The founder to whom I spoke was not Felix. I believe, although my evidence is far from solid, that 356CAR likewise did not want to be part of the Registry.

Since making them part of the Registry would doubtless result in my being thrown out of them since the Registry "leaders" would insist, my personal preference would be for them to remain separate. I'd prefer particularly that the SoCal group NOT be part of the Registry. I am biased. At least four current Registry trustees are members of SoCal as is the past president, all of whom could be counted on to demand that I no longer belong once the SoCal group were part of the R. That be a personal bad result - the SoCal group is actually run like a car club.

Sebastien:

The National Woodie Club has 17 chapters. The bylaws require that chapter members belong to National, but, unlike PCA, national does not furnish a stipend to the chapters based on membership. The chapters are self-supporting and collect their own dues, generally around $25. Some publish periodic paper newsletters although fewer than previously did so. It seems to work. It would not work for the Registry as presently constituted.

[356JAGER]

Hi Joel,

For conversations sake, let's say the club is being run the way you wish it to be run. I can be counted as one who wants open discussion, so let's discuss. What changes would you make and what else could the club do for its members? That is what I am trying to get a handle on.

Thanks,

Sebastian Gaeta[/quote]

Sebastian,
Nice try, but you once again ignore the reality that the running of
the club isn't about the way I wish it to be run, but the way it is
REQUIRED to be run by Ohio and Federal statutes. Until that occurs,
the club will continue to be nothing but a feeding trough for the
select few. Here are my suggestions for change that will help bring
the club into compliance with the aforementioned statutes:

A: The club will have the required local affiliates or cease to exist
B: The magazine and the need for a publisher goes away or becomes
digital as ours is here in Northern California at 356 Car,
operated solely by unpaid member volunteers.
C: All, every check, payment, obligation or any other part of the
club's business is readily available online to any club member at
any time. No secret contracts, no monies or other benefits to
accrue to the volunteers who front for the club.
D: All trustee meetings be held via teleconference, not in
conjunction with Holidays, Lit Meets or any other function that
is used as an excuse to fund the few's participation on the club's
dime. Such meetings to be recorded, transcribed verbatim and put
online for all to see.
E: Any question to a trustee of general interest to the club be made
on the forum, answered and discussed there for all members to see
and participate.
F: No one with a business related to 356's is to be an officer of the
club since there is an obvious conflict of interest.
G: The Forum and all it's peripherals, buying, selling etc. is open
to all, not just members and funded by ads paid for by those who
are vendors.

There's a lot more, but in the end, should the current leadership's policies be continued, my feeling is that the 'leadership' will burn club resources defending their indefensible behavior until it's time to declare the bankruptcy that's been apparent in many ways, for so long now.

[Bill Sampson]

I should have thanked Sebastien for engaging over here. So, thanks Sebastien. Although we are doubtless in disagreement as to some things I appreciate that you are willing to post here, where civility and openness are hallmarks.

On the "local chapter" or region idea I'll add that I was actually surprised, when I first became involved with 356 clubs, that there was no affiliation of the local clubs to which I belonged and the Registry. It was only considerably later that I learned of the reasons, which, in my opinion, remain sound after at least two decades. I'd prefer some sort of affiliation personally, and, as Mr. Szabo posits, it may actually be required, but, with the current regime in place at the R it would be a terrible idea for the well-established local clubs.

I repeat, thanks for stepping in.


Bill

[bbspdstr]

Actually, I hear more and more (and proselytize more and more) about getting good information, experiences and even tall tales from those long-involved in 356-dom who are fading away every day.

(The most recent R-magazine had a great article about Bob Garretson, extolling his impressive history with Porsche. I don't think it said much about his impact as a Registry trustee in regard to keeping up with the changing times.)

Gordon is obviously aware of the effects of time, so the magazine has original owner stories and he was soliciting stories and pictures of early Factory museum visits on the Forum.

That's a very good 'change' for the Registry and the passing-of-the-torch for 356 enthusiasm overall.

In a direct conversation just yesterday with Justin, I mentioned that IF I can find the few pictures I took, we could add my Factory visits in the '60s and '70s to the Blog part of this site, which he had offered as a future option.

I like that, as my experiences were very limited and not substantial enough to be worth inclusion in the Registry magazine, but anecdotally may be of some small interest in a Blog format. My experiences at Stuttgart were more 'human interest' and far less technical. As a matter of fact, the memories of the '60s and '70s are getting faded and if they are to be told, now is the time (see "fading," above).


An aside: Let me say publicly here that I am very thankful to Justin for his polite listening to my bore-ass story about meeting Wolfgang Heppler as the guard at the Factory in '76 who let me into the closed museum for an unguided tour, had me over for dinner with his wife Petra... and this part I did not relate; after their divorce a year later, Wolfgang came to live with me for a short while in the US when I thought he could be an asset to my Porsche business...and bringing with him Bayah, his very protective German shepherd, who decided to bar me from my own home until we eventually came to terms!

[spg356]

Hi Joel,

For conversations sake, let's say the club is being run the way you wish it to be run. I can be counted as one who wants open discussion, so let's discuss. What changes would you make and what else could the club do for its members? That is what I am trying to get a handle on.

Thanks,

Sebastian Gaeta

Sebastian,
Nice try, but you once again ignore the reality that the running of
the club isn't about the way I wish it to be run, but the way it is
REQUIRED to be run by Ohio and Federal statutes. Until that occurs,
the club will continue to be nothing but a feeding trough for the
select few. Here are my suggestions for change that will help bring
the club into compliance with the aforementioned statutes:

Hi Joel, then I'll gladly rephrase the question. If the club was run the way it is required to be run....? It still provides the same answers I am looking for, and yours are below, thank you.

A: The club will have the required local affiliates or cease to exist Is that an actual requirement? Serious and sincere question
B: The magazine and the need for a publisher goes away or becomes
digital as ours is here in Northern California at 356 Car,
operated solely by unpaid member volunteers. The need for publisher does not go away, just the printing of the paper magazine. Someone still needs to coordinate articles and lay out the electronic version.
C: All, every check, payment, obligation or any other part of the
club's business is readily available online to any club member at
any time. No secret contracts, no monies or other benefits to
accrue to the volunteers who front for the club. Agreed
D: All trustee meetings be held via teleconference, not in
conjunction with Holidays, Lit Meets or any other function that
is used as an excuse to fund the few's participation on the club's
dime. Such meetings to be recorded, transcribed verbatim and put
online for all to see. Is this typical of the type of non-profit the Registry is?
E: Any question to a trustee of general interest to the club be made
on the forum, answered and discussed there for all members to see
and participate. That could be good, as long as it is a general question. Anything getting too personal and specific could be taken offline.
F: No one with a business related to 356's is to be an officer of the
club since there is an obvious conflict of interest. That I don't know about. Many people who make it their life's work have much to bring to the club with their knowledge and experience. If the proper checks and balances are in place, perhaps it would not matter.
G: The Forum and all it's peripherals, buying, selling etc. is open
to all, not just members and funded by ads paid for by those who
are vendors. I like the fact that there are no ads or banners ion the site, other than that, sure.

There's a lot more, but in the end, should the current leadership's policies be continued, my feeling is that the 'leadership' will burn club resources defending their indefensible behavior until it's time to declare the bankruptcy that's been apparent in many ways, for so long now.[/quote]

[spg356]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate that.

To clarify, do the to California clubs you mention not want to be a part of the Registry, as in "we don't need them" or is it that they want nothing to do with the Registry as in "we don't like them"?

There is an important difference.

Thanks,

[Pat]

I haven't said much for awhile, but this discussion is a great example of openness and a step towards improving the Registry as a club and a non- profit.

Sebastian, I think it is really great to see you posting here and on the Registry site about where the club should be headed. I enjoy reading your column in the magazine and now having you here is great too.

I have a suggestion about who should and shouldn't be trustees--my suggestion is based on 20 years of experience as the COO of the national organ transplant network (UNOS)
which has a board that requires that transplant surgeons or doctors serving on the board can not make up more than 50% of the board. This helps provide expertise to the rest of the board (organ donors, patients, transplant recipients, scientists, government representatives, etc.) with informed experience but also keeps the system balanced to contain equal input from the non professionals--i.e. the customers.

So I would suggest that bye laws be changed so the trustees that are in the 356 business should not comprise more than 50 (maybe lower) per cent of the the board. I would also recommend that contractors (i.e. publishers, editors, etc.) can not vote on issues--only elected trustees can vote. This suggestion is made in the spirit of trying to improve the participation of amateur enthusiasts (of 356s) in the governance of the Registry. My $.0356 worth!

[356JAGER]

Thanks Pat for your insightful take on the issue of vested interests.
A reasoned and thoughtful alternative to problem. Welcome to you Sebastian. Nice to have a reasoned discussion with someone from the club and not the sycophantic vitriol so often displayed by the usual
suspects on the R's forum. Thank you.
Best regards,
Joel

[356JAGER]

Hi Joel,

For conversations sake, let's say the club is being run the way you wish it to be run. I can be counted as one who wants open discussion, so let's discuss. What changes would you make and what else could the club do for its members? That is what I am trying to get a handle on.

Thanks,

Sebastian Gaeta

Sebastian,
Nice try, but you once again ignore the reality that the running of
the club isn't about the way I wish it to be run, but the way it is
REQUIRED to be run by Ohio and Federal statutes. Until that occurs,
the club will continue to be nothing but a feeding trough for the
select few. Here are my suggestions for change that will help bring
the club into compliance with the aforementioned statutes:

Hi Joel, then I'll gladly rephrase the question. If the club was run the way it is required to be run....? It still provides the same answers I am looking for, and yours are below, thank you.

A: The club will have the required local affiliates or cease to exist Is that an actual requirement? Serious and sincere question
Yes, I believe that is required under the Ohio statutes.
B: The magazine and the need for a publisher goes away or becomes
digital as ours is here in Northern California at 356 Car,
operated solely by unpaid member volunteers. The need for publisher does not go away, just the printing of the paper magazine. Someone still needs to coordinate articles and lay out the electronic version.
You'll note that my response covers this aspect of the club's operation. I believe Bob Cannon serves that function for our club and that articles and photo essays are provided by volunteer club members. No paid editor required.
C: All, every check, payment, obligation or any other part of the
club's business is readily available online to any club member at
any time. No secret contracts, no monies or other benefits to
accrue to the volunteers who front for the club. Agreed
D: All trustee meetings be held via teleconference, not in
conjunction with Holidays, Lit Meets or any other function that
is used as an excuse to fund the few's participation on the club's
dime. Such meetings to be recorded, transcribed verbatim and put
online for all to see. Is this typical of the type of non-profit the Registry is?
Yes, for those clubs that are interested in the wise use of their member's funds.
E: Any question to a trustee of general interest to the club be made
on the forum, answered and discussed there for all members to see
and participate. That could be good, as long as it is a general question. Anything getting too personal and specific could be taken offline.
That was what I was inferring.
F: No one with a business related to 356's is to be an officer of the
club since there is an obvious conflict of interest. That I don't know about. Many people who make it their life's work have much to bring to the club with their knowledge and experience. If the proper checks and balances are in place, perhaps it would not matter.
See Pat's post on this subject. I believe this is the root of all the current problems facing the club. There are no checks and balances.
G: The Forum and all it's peripherals, buying, selling etc. is open
to all, not just members and funded by ads paid for by those who
are vendors. I like the fact that there are no ads or banners ion the site, other than that, sure.
There are ads all over the site from vendors, but they get them free and a soapbox is provided for their services at no charge. Cliff's plea for engine building customers is just one tiny example as are the many other pitches given by vendor members in their posts and ads.


There's a lot more, but in the end, should the current leadership's policies be continued, my feeling is that the 'leadership' will burn club resources defending their indefensible behavior until it's time to declare the bankruptcy that's been apparent in many ways, for so long now.

[/quote]

Hope this clarifies my viewpoints.
Best,
Joel

[bbspdstr]

F: No one with a business related to 356's is to be an officer of the
club since there is an obvious conflict of interest. That I don't know about. Many people who make it their life's work have much to bring to the club with their knowledge and experience. If the proper checks and balances are in place, perhaps it would not matter.

I have noted that at a serious Concours, more and more judges are restorers, in some instances, one of the team is the restorer who did the car being judged. I no longer show or judge but still wonder what checks and balances (or deals) are in place in those situations. Still, while looking like a conflict of interest, those people are likely the most knowledgeable for criteria beyond 'clean.'

Some show judges have been 'kicked upstairs' due to knowing only parts book 'facts' but not actual (356) idiosyncrasies from seeing a bunch of original cars. People on the board of the Registry really do need to know more of and have more awareness of the business end of things since when the club was smaller and more informal.

The newsletter was great but the magazine is far more 'formal'...and rather expensive. Would a good accountant or business leader allow such a percentage of the whole nut to be used that way even IF the 'magazine is the club'? Would a member lawyer on the board have allowed a suit to be instigated by withholding informational details about club business to another member who is a CPA, given the laws of the state of incorporation?

Sebastian, let's take a person near to you in many ways, Vic. I have proposed in the past that he be awarded an honorary position something like "Technical Director Emeritus" of the Registry that would allow him to do what he does best; share his vast 356 knowledge and experience....and free up a seat on the board. Remember when he was going to step down, but someone "pissed him off" so he felt another term was in order. Bad reasoning for everyone involved, if that was the case. We no longer communicate, so who knows, maybe I was the one that "pissed him off."

When I ran for trustee, I lost to Vic by a few votes but really didn't want to unseat Vic at all...at that time. Now, I think the club would be better served by a competent younger replacement with Vic as a 356 Technical adviser.

Should I, as a restorer who tries to make a living on 356s, be disallowed to serve a 356 club as a leader? Probably, and that was the awareness I had in younger days when the Registry leadership seemed to be populated with vendors or others with a conflicting agenda. Now, as you say, if all was open and transparent, it should not matter. If the per diem and expensing for a trustee on 'official business' was established and known, I would run again. If the job description of a trustee is open and known, many more would likely run for a leadership role. I would, if honest average hours needed were made known to tell if sufficient time could be available BEFORE 'retirement.'

The board should include at least one person with financial experience other than the treasurer. It would be ideal if some legal expertize was involved, as Bud West was long ago.

We had a chance to have a CPA on the board a few elections ago, but incumbents always have an edge and they did then. Being a 356 'pro' doesn't mean that person knows any more about 356s than a very astute amateur 356 enthusiast, but some appropriate people with other skill-sets helpful in an overall leadership package would mean more in the business end of things even if those members don't change their own oil. (Vic could cover the technical end of things, right?)

Can you, Sebastian, tell me why, if being a trustee is so tiring and time-consuming, certain people hang on for decades when they could serve the club in other ways just as or more appropriate? Why not let other valuable people who want to serve, take a shot?

Without a specific platform, I would still say that "the magazine, the Holiday and the camaraderie" would be enhanced by fresh ideas and personalities possessing business acumen and/or plain old common courtesy and common sense. Can you think of specifics you would deem important?

Regards,
-Bruce

[Bill Sampson]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate that.

To clarify, do the to California clubs you mention not want to be a part of the Registry, as in "we don't need them" or is it that they want nothing to do with the Registry as in "we don't like them"?

There is an important difference.

Thanks,

You're welcome. I have been informed (mind you I wasn't there) that the SoCal club was formed at a time that some - my impression is a majority but I wasn't there - of the local owners specifically did not want the local club to be part of the Registry but to be a separate entity. Many of the SoCal members currently are active in the Registry. I would not characterize many (if any) members, including my wife and me as "anti-Registry" although my wife and I are definitely not alone in our dissatisfaction with what the leadership of the Registry has been doing or failing to do.

As for NorCal, I am a newbie there. Our daughter lives in that territory so when we visit her we hope to spend a little more time with them. We do have friends there, some of whom are pretty unhappy with Registry leadership, but whether a majority, a tiny minority, or just four or five of us I just wouldn't know.

If the above doesn't answer what you asked I'll be happy to respond again.