Radio Free Registry

[S.J.Szabo]

a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc.astonished and completely unsurprisedastonished that you do not yet grasp the principles of democracy and the responsibility to participate and preserve that goes with it.

I am unsurprisedallthat door; the one you have closed your mind to. Like it or not, going thru thatrealanythat, you are free to go somewhere else.

[jstenner]

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[Carrera GT]

All Parts and Pieces - Past and Present - whether being from stubborn, ignorant, naive old school Trustee's personal and business agendas to control and intimidate - and yes, please include mis-behaved and uneducated, mishandled 356 Registry member and business decisions...now find their way as coming together - to be reconciled.

Another threshold - time for new breath and new life into the Porsche 356 World. PCA / Panorama has already done it.

-Michael Doyle-

[spg356]

SJ,

This is my first post although I joined a while ago, but I want to thank you for your response to my question "what more can the Registry be than what it is today". You ar ethe only one to do so as of this writing.

"A club that is run according to all the rules, that has integral local chapters to provide the fellowship that is the whole point of the exercise..."
I belong to a very strong and active local group which likely gives me a different perspective of what I "need" from the Registry. I don't believe I would like to live anywhere that did not have an active local club. As far as having chapters or official regions, I believe the original vision of the Registry was to be un-PCA like and have one national club with independent local clubs. The effort to run a local club can be great and the effort to manage those regions by a national club even greater. Are you proposing that regional clubs be created where there currently are none or just strengthening the existing ones?

I am very active in the Motor Cities Gruppe and although we have 100+ members, it is always the same 15 people or so that do the work. We do it gladly and the other 85+ just want to be "members" (in this case you would call them "subscribers" I suppose). That would be a huge undertaking for an all volunteer army on both the national and regional level.




That's something I had not thought about and it certainly would thin the herd of the subscribers or "casual" members as I like to think of them. I am not sure if that is good or bad. The people that remained would be the more hardcore and active members for sure, but I believe a vast majority of them also want a nice club magazine. Now SJ, you are a big thinker and you understand humans and their nature. If the Registry were to financially support the local clubs, would that be good or bad? The reason I ask is that the only other car club model I know of like that is PCA. Anyone who is a member knows that the regions are all about growing their membership to a certain point and getting a cut of the dues paid to PCA. In effect, it turns into a money grab in my opinion and we could be in a whole different situation.

"Oh yes, and into supporting and expanding the registry database and its free dissemination to the members, and to the world, if it is still interested in it."
I assume you mean the info about the cars and I completely agree.

As far as what you wrote in the beginning of your post, it appears to me that you believe I was talking about you in my post "over there", which I was not. If you are passionate about what you believe, that is most admirable. If you are passionate about being civilly disobedient for the sake of being so and nothing else, well, that gets old quick. That was what the individual I was talking about was like, and it was not you.

SJ, It's OK to be civil with people who have different points of view. I have never name called or denigrated anyone on these forums and likewise don't believe I have a big mouth, am a bigot, am part of the apathetic ilk and certainly have never believed anyone needed my approval. If that is what you believe then that is what you believe. Peace.

[356JAGER]

Sebastian,
Think you need to re-read the first thing mentioned in Stephen's
post, ' A club that is run according to all the rules '. That sums
up what is wrong with the Registry and thus far the Ohio courts under
whose rules the club is governed, not to mention the Federal rules that apply to the operation of non-profits, have agreed with Mr. Heinrichs position as to the non-compliance of the trustees with those
laws. Three times now actually. So if you want an answer to 'what more can the Registry be than what it is today ', I think your answer has been apparent all along, but then you probably already know that.

[spg356]

Hi Joel,

I did read it and included that in my response. My original question on the Registry forum was what more could the Registry be and I specifically excluded any aspect of how the club was run as I feel that is a different discussion.

I structured the question that way because I wanted to hear some fresh ideas about what else the club could be or what else it could do aside from the disagreement about the governance of the club. SJ provided some examples and I would love to hear more.

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.Gaeta:

The thing that is most difficult to get across is that a 501(c)(7) is no different than the people of which it is comprised: each has obligations to fulfill in exchange for the enjoyment of the privilege of their situation. Our society affords individuals many opportunities and protections, but when the benefits are taken for granted, or when an individual believes themselves so special that they are entitled to enjoy the benefits without the obligation of fully supporting the system that makes the benefits possible, it all breaks down, with inevitable collateral damage to those around said selfish takers, that those who take and give back do not deserve.

When the Club accepted the benefits of its non-profit status, it was, and remains, obliged to accept the responsibilities that go along with the benefits. It has to play by the rules if it is going to be responsible to those obligations.

A very prominent and specific obligation the Club mustchoice; it is a responsibilitycannot be separated from, the many issues of it's governance.

[356JAGER]

Sebastian,
Fair enough distinction, but the reality is that until the running of the club is open, honest and in compliance with the law any other changes will likely not occur as the 'leadership's' comfortable nest
would be disturbed. Oh, but I think that's exactly what Mr. Heinrichs
intends to do with his lawsuit...and judging by the protestations of the 'trustees' and their sycophants, he's succeeding nicely.

[bbspdstr]

While I was quoted on the Registry site's 'Minutes' thread and began a reply there, I realized the 'Three Interruptions Means Don't Send' rule and bailed. Now that there is a meaningful discussion here, I'll try to be brief. (Me? Ha!)

The improvement/betterment of the Registry in any and all ways hinges on the few members called trustees. Thus, I have always felt there should be more turnover. "Nothing personal ya understand"....but it's getting "personal." Why?

Real gentlemen would welcome discussion. Good leaders would welcome questions about anything Registry posed politely and honestly.....and openly. It would not be a case of appearances but instead, known facts, shared openly with all members who care.

The word "cosmetic" has been used to describe changes in appearances in the Registry, so let's use the Minutes as an example. I and others asked for access for those (and agendas and financial records and many other details about club business) for about 8 years and we were diverted, stonewalled or ignored. No, worse. We were called "attackers" and "accusers" and turned against. That was the genesis of why, what and where we are now within the Registry.

Yes, those like me often wonder why we are staying around the Regsitry. The good news is that we get 'freshness' from THIS site!

Personal opinion: the Minutes posted, 'massaged' or not, are at least a start. Why now, after 8 years? If all the trustees are doing is 'just fine' what has prompted this 'change'?

Change is not always scary, change can be good. If some fresh ideas from younger members are truly important, WHY aren't they openly solicited and discussed by the current board?

Bottom line: IF the laws and regulations pertaining to a 501C7 are strictly observed, change will naturally come about. Nothing radical or particularly novel about that and how it will affect and effect the Registry other than new dogs will need to learn those new tricks.

Hey, the old dogs can just assume an honorary place on the Porsch and watch the younger dogs run by as they assume the leadership of the pack, sigh, and remember when they were the Big Dogs. "Every dog has his day."

[spg356]

Mr.Gaeta:

The thing that is most difficult to get across is that a 501(c)(7) is no different than the people of which it is comprised: each has obligations to fulfill in exchange for the enjoyment of the privilege of their situation. Our society affords individuals many opportunities and protections, but when the benefits are taken for granted, or when an individual believes themselves so special that they are entitled to enjoy the benefits without the obligation of fully supporting the system that makes the benefits possible, it all breaks down, with inevitable collateral damage to those around said selfish takers, that those who take and give back do not deserve.

When the Club accepted the benefits of its non-profit status, it was, and remains, obliged to accept the responsibilities that go along with the benefits. It has to play by the rules if it is going to be responsible to those obligations.

A very prominent and specific obligation the Club mustchoice; it is a responsibility. And it is just one of many that the Club Leadership has chosen to ignore because it does not suit Their purposes that have nothing to do with being a good car club.

SJ, I have not read the bylaws, but I don't believe the Registry is obligated to create, support and maintain local chapters or Regions. They do support them in different ways, however. So is it an obligation or just a good idea?

There is more than one way to live up to this particular obligation, but my personal idea is that the most logical solution begins with enticing the independents to become Chapters; this would make the most of the opportunities that already exist, while bringing those 356ers under the same umbrella. The problem with this is that none of the independents want anything to do with the Registry, owing to the exceedingly poor reputation of it's Leadership. A fresh slate of new faces with better ideas behind them would go a long way to solving this problem. I am not aware of any independent clubs that want nothing to do with the Registry. The closest I believe you could get would be the SoCal 356 club, but that is because of the sheer size and the abundance of activities they have. They don't "need" the Registry, but as far as I know they don't dislike the Registry.
What responsibilities to the membership are you referring to? The local regions model? That goes back to the question of whether it is an actual obligation or a good idea. Personally, I think it is a good idea having benefitted from a strong local club. Whether the Registry can actually do it or not I don't know.
SJ,If you saw yourself in my description of someone who made trouble for the sake of doing so, then hear me out. I googled you this morning, and if you live in Indiana, then I found exactly one article about you at a city council meeting discussing the safety of bicyclists and pedestrians in roubndabouts. I happen to agree with you completely on this. Roudabouts are popping up all over Ann Arbor and while I have found they are terrific for keeping our traffic moving, I cringe whenever I see a pedestrian or bicyclist trying to do their thing. The fellow that I was referring to was such a distraction at his council meetings that you would not even had a chance to get have your say.If after that you still believe I was referring to you, well, so be it.
I have never posted a "Yeah, what he said post"
cannot be separated from, the many issues of it's governance.

Thanks SJ.

[spg356]

Sebastian,
Fair enough distinction, but the reality is that until the running of the club is open, honest and in compliance with the law any other changes will likely not occur as the 'leadership's' comfortable nest
would be disturbed. Oh, but I think that's exactly what Mr. Heinrichs
intends to do with his lawsuit...and judging by the protestations of the 'trustees' and their sycophants, he's succeeding nicely.

Hi Joel,

For conversations sake, let's say the club is being run the way you wish it to be run. I can be counted as one who wants open discussion, so let's discuss. What changes would you make and what else could the club do for its members. That is what I am trying to get a handle on.

Thanks,

Sebastian Gaeta

[spg356]

Sebastian,
Fair enough distinction, but the reality is that until the running of the club is open, honest and in compliance with the law any other changes will likely not occur as the 'leadership's' comfortable nest
would be disturbed. Oh, but I think that's exactly what Mr. Heinrichs
intends to do with his lawsuit...and judging by the protestations of the 'trustees' and their sycophants, he's succeeding nicely.

Hi Joel,

For conversations sake, let's say the club is being run the way you wish it to be run. I can be counted as one who wants open discussion, so let's discuss. What changes would you make and what else could the club do for its members? That is what I am trying to get a handle on.

Thanks,

Sebastian Gaeta

[jstenner]

-----

[spg356]

While I was quoted on the Registry site's 'Minutes' thread and began a reply there, I realized the 'Three Interruptions Means Don't Send' rule and bailed. Now that there is a meaningful discussion here, I'll try to be brief. (Me? Ha!)

The improvement/betterment of the Registry in any and all ways hinges on the few members called trustees. Thus, I have always felt there should be more turnover. "Nothing personal ya understand"....but it's getting "personal." Why?

Real gentlemen would welcome discussion. Good leaders would welcome questions about anything Registry posed politely and honestly.....and openly. It would not be a case of appearances but instead, known facts, shared openly with all members who care.

The word "cosmetic" has been used to describe changes in appearances in the Registry, so let's use the Minutes as an example. I and others asked for access for those (and agendas and financial records and many other details about club business) for about 8 years and we were diverted, stonewalled or ignored. No, worse. We were called "attackers" and "accusers" and turned against. That was the genesis of why, what and where we are now within the Registry.

Yes, those like me often wonder why we are staying around the Regsitry. The good news is that we get 'freshness' from THIS site!

Personal opinion: the Minutes posted, 'massaged' or not, are at least a start. Why now, after 8 years? If all the trustees are doing is 'just fine' what has prompted this 'change'?

Change is not always scary, change can be good. If some fresh ideas from younger members are truly important, WHY aren't they openly solicited and discussed by the current board?

Bottom line: IF the laws and regulations pertaining to a 501C7 are strictly observed, change will naturally come about. Nothing radical or particularly novel about that and how it will affect and effect the Registry other than new dogs will need to learn those new tricks.

Hey, the old dogs can just assume an honorary place on the Porsch and watch the younger dogs run by as they assume the leadership of the pack, sigh, and remember when they were the Big Dogs. "Every dog has his day."

Hi Bruce,

Your question to me last year was "what is the Registry to you" My reply was "The magazine, the forum and the Holidays". Soon after I read several times about how the club should be much more than just that. So, besides what you discussed above, what can the Registry be to it's members other than what I listed?

If the answer is "nothing", then OK, that's fine. But if there are other things it can be, I am curious to hear the ideas. SJ proposes a smaller magazine, lower dues to get younger people involved and the creation of local chapters. Although I must say that our cars are waaaaay too expensive right now for youngsters to be able to afford them anyway, but that is another discussion!

[bbspdstr]

Dear Sebastian, I forgot to state what I feel betterment of the Registry could be like.

To get with the times, I'd suggest a lower fee than hard copy magazine subscription for those who would like to participate online-only. That could appeal to domestic and overseas enthusiasts of all ages. Soon after, the magazine content could be part of a "Members Only" section, perhaps a step process with a slight increase in cost, eventually anticipating transitioning to an either/or of online or hard copy. (Sorry Gordon, but I think we all know that's the way things are going now...PCA is already there.)

As for Regions of the Registry, good luck with that. There are many 356ers within a 100 mile radius of Philadelphia and only about a dozen people (if that) will organize or help with events. I tried last year to organize a simple day-long picnic and cancelled "due to a lack of interest." It seems that age and priorities have changed in the last decade-or-so. 356s are being polished and placed in portfolios, but a low tremor I've sensed very lately is that some 'drives' may be happening this year as our miserable weather clears. Hoo-rah!

If you live in an area with a strong local 356 club, you are very lucky. There should be more. There could be inclusions in any Registry publication similar to PCA's "From the Regions" (more than reporting a specific event) while the local groups remain independent. Tie them together without tying them up. Ecumenicism has never been a Registry strength or preference, but times are a-changin'.

It's all that and more.... or Justin's site will continue to take bigger bites of the Registry's apple. The Free Market will prevail, right?