Radio Free Registry

[Bill Sampson]

I really don't know why the Registry didn't simply have Fred print the income and expense statement and balance sheet that he can generate in QuickBooks. Oops. The books are done on ledger sheets in pencil. Silly me.

Well done Mr. Szabo.

[S.J.Szabo]

W.Bender post, 11 Mar.

I'm not sure this is the proper venue for discussing specifics on the financial statement. I would suggest it be done by e-mail to the proper people. And, no, there aren't any conspiracies found hiding therein.

just my $.02,
confirms

[Steve Heinrichs]

Greetings from Stuttgart.

An excellent analysis, Mr. Szabo.

Steve Heinrichs

[jstenner]

----

[MMW]

I do get a kick out of the fact that only a few people on the R site actually care. I saw this latest question/response & thought if everyone over there started posting questions it could get quite entertaining but alas it is just a sad state of affairs when you are not allowed to discuss club business within the club itself.

from the R. -- Mike Ruddy wrote,

"Well this is a confusing thread. Pertinent questions appear to have been edited/deleted.

I have a general question about the financial report. What is the agent fee that is lumped together with advertising costs in the expenses column and how does the agent fee/advertising cost break down ?

Regards, Mike."

So not to be accused of taking something out of context, here is the link of the entire thread. http://www.porsche356registry.org/356talk/1/35789.html

[Pat]

Please note that I deleted my own post on the Financial Report thread on the R forum

I posted the following on the thread later:

"My deletion above was a suggestion that the report be put where it now resides in the news tab. I think I was confusing the Treasurer's report with the Audit. Anyway, when I noticed the Treasurer's report was already in the news tab, I deleted my post. Greg did not delete it.

Funny how everyone thinks conspiracy is afoot!"

[356JAGER]

Mic
No surprise. They 'edit', have their minions deride, or simply ignore, ignore, ignore. Anyone who thinks an e-mail to the 'proper' authority will receive an honest response, in the extremely unlikely event of
getting one at all, is delusional. Those who do care over there are
afraid of retaliation or simply realize that any such effort will meet
the responses listed above. My guess is that they will keep going until it's best to declare the club bankrupt, and place the blame on
Mr. Heinrichs for pursuing what they should have been doing all along. They already have the parachute in place. Vulture Capitalism at it's worst.

[MMW]

Please note that I deleted my own post on the Financial Report thread on the R forum

I posted the following on the thread later:

"My deletion above was a suggestion that the report be put where it now resides in the news tab. I think I was confusing the Treasurer's report with the Audit. Anyway, when I noticed the Treasurer's report was already in the news tab, I deleted my post. Greg did not delete it.

Funny how everyone thinks conspiracy is afoot!"

I don't think there is a conspiracy but I just notice that when someone asks a question about the finances or club business they have been told not to discuss it on the forum. That is sad imo that they don't want open discussions.

[Carrera GT]

As in all groups of people, including the Registry membership, there are levels of apathy - to not become active or get involved in certain topics that may be outside of a person's comfort level.

There is, however, no apathy within the Justice system. And the Ohio Court system judges have continued to repeatedly rule in Steve Heinrichs favor.

Closely quoting Judge Sheward "The Registry Trustees cannot have it both ways". This has been stated by him more than once. Trying to have it both ways reminds me of the description of hypocrisy. And in many respects this not only refers to their lawsuit answers and actions - but also to how their financial reporting is done.

As time moves forward, hopefully more objective, non-apathetic truth, rulings, and membership rights will come about.

-Michael Doyle-

[Bill Sampson]

Thanks Mr. Szabo re: the Bender post. Thanks to you other folks, Pat, Michael, Mic, Joel, Jack (if I left someone out you're meant to be included).

As an athlete I was always the last guy chosen and generally played left end guard. That meant I stayed on left end of the bench and guarded the water bucket. I remember one uniform rule. There is only one coach. Bender violated that rule. ANY player that forgot or ignored that rule immediately became the right end guard - a position to which Mr. Bender should have been assigned by the moderator, if only for a brief time out.

It looks like Gilmour edited his own post and Pat clearly did. I met Greg Bryan at the Toy/Lit meet and he is a decent sort. I had his job for several years on the email list. Like the rules or not when you have that position it is your job to enforce them. Greg exercises a very light hand generally although I certainly have some minor disagreements with him. He did not edit either Gilmour's post nor Pat's. His choices are either to guard the House or quit.

Gordon STARTED the thread. Yet, based on past experience neither he nor any of the Trustees will respond to the thread. I'd be astonished if they responded to a direct inquiry given their history, but, perhaps Mike Ruddy "over there" or Pat or someone will forward their questions to them.

It took only three and one half years of inquiring and a lawsuit to persuade them to do an interim (half year) financial report to the people who pay to run the club, the members.

[356JAGER]

The post below from David Gensler really gets to the issue. It is brought home by the self serving post by the 'publisher' above it on their thread,
Once again boasting of his good deeds, yet still failing to actually
answer the questions with other than more of the same old generalized and truly meaningless, numbers and 'categories' What are the hiding ?
They obviously don't want anyone to know. Why wouldn't you be proud to show your fellow club members, that you volunteered to serve, the good work that you have done for them. I digress. Take it away Mr. Gensler, and thanks for a masterful summation of the real issues here.


In response to Wes Bender's comment, I must strongly disagree. It seems quite appropriate, to me at least, to discuss and question the Registry's business on the Registry's forum.

I am pleased to see the information made available to members through this venue (thank you Mary, for replying so quickly). I am not so pleased to see that it is the same broad-brush coverage that has been provided through the magazine for decades. I had hoped more detail would be made available for those who were interested.

Personally, I would like to know details on "membership related expenses", "legal and accounting", "holidays, events, meetings", and "board meeting expenses". I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not have a suspicion or expectation of any wrongdoing. I fully expect that the Registry is in good shape, and that it has been well run. However with the lack of detail provided to members, there really is no way to ascertain whether that is true, or not. I would like to know how the money is actually spent, and to whom.

We all have different opinions of what is proper expenditure. As an example, someone may object to a trustee having a beer at board meeting. Personally, I would not object, but someone who does has the right to make their feelings known. If that feeling is held by the majority, then maybe that trustee shouldn't have that beer, or be voted out if he continues to. On the other hand, I would definitely object to a fellow having 6 beers, along with a couple of rounds for some friends. Proper expenditure is a subjective evaluation that, in the absence of details, there is no way for members to judge. Instead it gets vaguely presented to members that "there's money in the bank, you get your magazine every other month, you don't need to know more, be happy". If one questions it, the result is silence.

A few months ago I wondered on this forum what the "certified audit" cost. I was curious only because several of the trustees were bragging about how much expense was incurred for what I thought was a rather superficial audit. But no one would answer. One trustee did respond privately that they couldn't discuss it because of the lawsuit. How that figure had anything to do with the lawsuit was beyond me. Now from the minutes of the LA meeting I learn it was $7500. I assume that's hidden under the "legal and accounting" category, but no way to know for sure. Would it have been so hard to report that in response to my question a few months ago? Knowing the cost was not that big a deal for me. That no one bothered to reply was!

This continued apparent reluctance on the part of some to readily share details on the club's financial dealings troubles me. I cannot understand what, in a club of like minded enthusiasts and friends, run for pleasure and not profit, could possibly justify such an attitude. The laws under which the Registry is incorporated apparently mandate the sharing of such data with members. But even if they did not, it would still seem a general good practice for the type of fraternal organization we all wish to be a part of.

So, with that logic, discussion of 356 Registry financial records on 356Talk is relevant and appropriate, and I am glad it is being presented here.

DG

_________________
David Gensler

[bbspdstr]

".....This continued apparent reluctance on the part of some to readily share details on the club's financial dealings troubles me. I cannot understand what, in a club of like minded enthusiasts and friends, run for pleasure and not profit, could possibly justify such an attitude......"

Bingo!
And it's not just financial. It's what trustees actually DO to be able to claim typical donated hours on an IRS statement and support the claim of being 'overworked.' A summary of what those charged with running the club spend their own time doing could be, should be reported with pride. Take turns reporting or supply Minutes of actual trustee meetings or get the summary from the Secretary or all of the above. Complaints could become suggestions which would perhaps eventually better the club.

I am sure some actually do 'work' harder than others, but the oft-mentioned 'appearance' of secrecy and ignoring of questions won't get many new trustee candidates come next election.

Please excuse that sarcasm. I used words like "pride," (accurate and open) "minutes" from actual trustee meetings, the acceptance of "suggestions" from members and the idea that any trustees in now would be letting go in the near future, should any member challenge them in a future election.

There are more benign questions that could be culled from the current "don't ask" list, but this is enough for now.

DG fits my definition of an ideal enthusiast. Posts both here and there...well. Right to the point without rancor or that "attitude" he mentions above....and does his own work on his 356s. He questions the un-supportable while being fair. There should be 7,000 members more like him...Justin comes to mind, as well........and then we really COULD "just get back to the cars."

-Bruce Baker

[S.J.Szabo]

Just SupposeManagement has elected to omit substantially all of the disclosures required by accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America. If the omitted disclosures were included in the financial statements, they might influence the user's conclusions about the Organization's financial position, changes in net assets, and cash flows.

One may well wonder whether such knowledge would lead to other revelations.

And the band played on.

[DG58INNM]

"The club members are "the proper people." There is no real discussion if each member must email each trustee re financial details and then email each other member for their input. That's why we have a forum, regardless of who's heartily sick of the discussion."

These words from Dennis O'Donnell get at the heart of the matter as well as any I've yet read.

And Bruce, you say "does his own work on his 356s" like its a good thing. But none of my cars run! Cause and effect?

DG

[Bill Sampson]

"And Bruce, you say "does his own work on his 356s" like its a good thing. But none of my cars run! Cause and effect?

DG

David:

Thank you for injecting a little humor into this thread.

Bill