Radio Free Registry

[Jack Staggs]

Oh yeah, then there's this:

[Phil Planck]

I am trying to key this on a tiny iPhone with my big fingers so please excuse my typos. As to my inputs on "solutions", I have given them more than once on the R and here. I know for me it is difficult to keep track of everyone's Inputs. Many here are suggesting major overhaul of the R right now it appears to me. With the lawsuit results pending I don't see that happening. To me the frustrating thing with the R forum is the trustees will not in general, participate. I assume this is because the R forum rules discourage this of non-trustee members. Possibly some of this is also due to the lawsuits. Anyway, there is a core group here just like on the R that gets pretty upset when topics stray from their agenda. Being from MI I know Sebastion pretty we'll and to me he is the epitome of a gung ho, get involved member of both the R and the local Motor Cities Gruppe. And on top of that a real gentleman. Those who think he was sent here by the R trustees seem to be a little paranoid to me. In finishing this input I need to admit that I can not write as eloquently as most of those participating here . Sorry, this is about best I can do.

[Trevor]

Here's another shot of the badge that Jack posted. Proof that is has been tried/done before.

[Mycar]

Interesting how many of you now come forward to 'participate' in criticizing but have yet to offer your voices in offering solutions.
Didn't notice any of you making the same criticisms of the truly offensive posts on the R site.
You call me 'rude', I call it 'to the point'. You seem to be a thin
skinned lot.

This thread has has nearly 30,000 views in the 10 months it been running... and yet the vast majority of the posts are by less than maybe 8 members. I think that for many, posting here may be a daunting prospect, it certainly has been for me. The scale of eloquence and sheer weight of rhetoric is enough to put anyone off.

So then, when Mr Gaeta steps up and into the lions den I applaud him, the dialog makes for a refreshing change and looks to me more than positive.

Then you barge in and shoot him in the foot.

So yes, I step out of the shadows, your crassness made me break cover.

What part do you play in all this Joel ?

And if, as you say, I have to validate my 'criticism' by offering you a solution, then my position is as it always has been... the Registry is/has become exclusive. It should be inclusive. Simple as that.

Make the Registry inclusive in as many ways as possible. Let people join in.

All IMHO of course.

[Steve Heinrichs]

Guys,

Maybe as a person who has dealt with this "abuse" issue somewhat, I can ask us to all return to the main set of problems. Each of us may say things from time to time that are not the most sensitive.

As to the use of the word "ignore", please note that an elected Trustee used that on the R Forum and there was no comment...and...that is exactly what happens there when an unconfortable question is asked.

Now---where is the outrage there as to Roy Lock's recent post accusing Bill Sampson of theft? That post remains unmoderated. Go take a look at page after page of vicious personal attacks I endured after asking simple questions and acussing no one of anything. Where is the outrage as to the lies and misleading and worse in the R president's litigation update.

As to the posts here---I am delighted that Sebastian has come here to ask questions but it is a bit odd as has been pointed out. And, interesting as it is to kick around how the club should operate----go try starting such a thread there.

Let's look at the current R situation:

---now there are "open" meetings. Never before but still the Trustee meetings are closed.

---there was at great cost a "cash basis" audit not asked for and which does nothing but put the tax return numbers on 8.5x11 paper.

---there is now, sort of, a budget.

---there is, Joris is told, an Audit Committee

---minutes are posted (the same ones that they resisted in discovery and now ask for a protective order about.

Yep. Some movement. Still, exactly why do you think this has happened?

This is the only forum where the serious issues can be discussed. Many and I mean many are afraid to post any criticism on the R Forum.

So, when someone maybe uses the word "ignore", let's stay focused on the real problems for the betterment of the Registry and not decide to make it the end of the world. None of this is easy. A friend of mine once said (now, please, take this as a joke): "If it were easy, girls could do it".

Have a great Sunday.

Steve Heinrichs

Steve

[spg356]

Guys/Gals,

This is not at all what I intended to happen. While I don't believe that I said anything to start this, it did in fact start because I posted here.

I'll keep to myself now as my plan was to stick with it unless it got heated or awkward, which it now has.

I hope when this is all over with, which ever way it goes, that a majority of the people on either side can put it behind them and move on.

Sebastian

[Bill Sampson]

I didn't see anything on this topic (or in my email for that matter) since Friday and left for a very pleasant day at Huntington Beach Cruisers at zero dark thirty on Saturday. Trevor and Jack, if you came up, sorry I missed you.

Anyway, Sebastien I hope you'll stick around whether I agree with you or not.

Steve H: "Thief" is one of the more polite terms I've been called by folks on the Registry forum as you know. Since I know that such sentiments are those of a noisy albeit powerful minority I would still like to belong to that club and in fact submitted an application to join this week.

Jack Staggs: I like that badge. It provides some interesting historical perspective - thanks. I believe that the formal start of the Porsche 356 Club included bylaws that did not provide for it being part of the Registry, since I "borrowed" those bylaws, with permission, to assist me in incorporating and obtaining 501c7 status for another car club. I've been involved only since 2001 and I think that badge is a little older. Interesting. JACK - don't miss Doheny on April 12. If you promise to come I'll promise to furnish rum balls.

All you other guys, thanks for providing your thoughts.

Bill

[356JAGER]

Thank you Steve for highlighting the point I was trying to make
when I used the word 'ignore'. Nothing was said on the R site when
one of the 'leaders' used it, yet here the usual bunch that keeps
silent on the R site regarding all the abusive language, is suddenly
ready to come from the shadows to chastise. 'Hypocrites' is the word
that comes to mind.

[Jack Staggs]

Thank you Steve for highlighting the point I was trying to make when I used the word 'ignore'. Nothing was said on the R site when
one of the 'leaders' used it, yet here the usual bunch that keeps
silent on the R site regarding all the abusive language, is suddenly
ready to come from the shadows to chastise. 'Hypocrites' is the word
that comes to mind.

I guess that I am now "one of the usual bunch that keeps silent on the R site...". The problem with that is that I have never been a member of the Registry so I don't/can't respond there even if I wanted to, but I am a member here. Each member here has a privilege to respectfully post their opinions, thoughts, and ideas with a reasonable expectation of respectful responses. It is a shame that it is not so with some people on the Registry site as well as on this one. The other day you said in a post "They 'edit', have their minions deride, or simply ignore, ignore, ignore." I believe that you were expressing some sort of indignation over that type of behavior. I agree. What I don't agree with is attempting to justify similar behavior. Perhaps many of us could take a little time to go back and review our posts on this subject here and other forums to see if there may be some things we have said about others that we are doing ourselves before we have the right to label an entire group or an individual "Hypocrites".
Jack Staggs

P.S. Steve H. "So, when someone maybe uses the word "ignore", let's stay focused on the real problems for the betterment of the Registry and not decide to make it the end of the world." It's not the hill that I want to die on, but you took being told to be ignored pretty seriously as well. It IS for the betterment of the Registry and can be as well here. Thanks for your post.

[356JAGER]

Jack,
Sebastian was engaged politely by myself and others on this forum until he revealed that he had nothing to offer and was fine with the R's operation as it stands. I at that point stated that I would ignore his further posts on this subject. Pointless to engage with someone who has his 'open' mind made up. I make no apology for doing so nor do I apologize for the use of the word 'hypocrite' for those who fit the shoe. If you don't, then you won't care, and obviously you are unable to post where you are not a member so that absolves you of that moniker. Those who think that all of us are going to simply engage in polite blather rather than doing the difficult work of getting to the facts, are always going to be disappointed with those of us who do. Should Sebastian or anyone else want to discuss
the pertinent issues honestly, welcome, but don't expect a free pass
for nonsense.

[S.J.Szabo]

[MMW]

I for one would like to see an open forum that all can participate. I think the few that mentioned that "advice" or "knowledge" should not be free are mistaken. Being a pay to play site does not seem welcoming to new comers. Although I admit most that sign up are welcomed warmly I think you would get more participation from "newbies" even if it was just a trial period. For someone just wanting to learn about the cars that we all love $45 is a lot if you only have a question or two about them.

Also opening up the classified to outside buyers. I have seen some items there that interested me but alas, no way to contact the seller.

[bbspdstr]

Well, for discussions of 'betterment' for the Registry, perhaps we should all begin with betterment here. I come back from NYC and a birthday celebration for my son to about 50 emails concerning the Registry Free Radio....

Why a request for suggestions of betterment for the Registry comes up here on Justin's site by anyone, in my opinion, should not matter, but be viewed as a good opportunity to bounce that ball around.

Honestly, with no rancor, no matter what else is included with such questioning. Yes, 'ignore' that which can distract from the main concern, especially wounds which are self-inflicted. "Sticks and stones".....really, the old "be above those who anger me" needs to be considered.

For myself, I realize that many from the Registry read what is written here. I am still a member and have a distinct feeling that if I wrote on the Registry Forum the way I am writing here on Justin's site, the same sort of unproductive distraction would occur. Is it not an objective to not blur the line between the two sites?

For the sheer boredom of those who have have seen my suggestions before, I have recommended some simple items that I feel would make the Registry more interesting. Here is one:

Have turnover in management but design-in continuity. I think a volunteer trustee should be willing to help another following him/her just as a volunteer Holiday Chair usually helps others down the line.

Don't reinvent the wheel, just improve it and make sure the wheel doesn't get bent or broken. Let as many members who care to volunteer do so. I've suggested that rookies have a trustee-in-training status and sit in on board meeting prior to running for a seat.

Hell, I had to put 'rookie stripes' on my early race cars to proudly tell those around me that I could be a hazard.

I really think Vic's "If they want term limits, let 'em not vote for us" is shallow and unrealistic.

If those who always vote for an incumbent could not, they would need to select from volunteers who wish to take a turn at the wheel. It could be energizing or a real bust, but experienced former trustees should be willing to step in and act as advisers. Again, why is this not acceptable?

Why is knowing ALL business details of the club not acceptable? That really looks bad even if it's not meant that way. I keep saying that if all is open and available, human nature insists that no one will care. Tell those same people they CAN'T see anything....look out, they will press to see more and more.

If these distractions are needing to be overcome by legal means, why? "Making the club better" right now would be settling the lawsuits and moving forward.

Letting the very few members who are interested or just curious (like me) to sit in on a real trustee meeting (other than an executive session) and providing them with an agenda the member-guests can follow, would take away the appearance of nefarious secrecy prevalent for so long.

Then, the minutes could be known to be the accurate minutes, no foolin' as outsiders would be able to "certify" (a favorite term of the trustees) the meetings contents. May I add that this would take no longer than meeting prep does now, so why not?

Keep the open meet-in-greet for the questions and answers or allot a similar slice of time in the agenda from the floor for such member involvement. Why not?

So, these are some of my 'betterment' suggestions. Relax the communication, insist on civility and politeness, make openness the norm, have open member-to-member called trustee communication rotate through like in the President's column now in the magazine and get to know each other better.

The type of audit, the budget (including the magazine) can be handled in due time. The first order of business is to attend to that business already at hand. 'Honorable Retirements' are needed first, unfortunately.

Start small. Get the requirements and legalities in order, infuse fresh blood and ideas and go from there. It has been stated 'over there' that "we are lucky the trustees haven't resigned en masse" and I can't agree. I believe that they would not (or the lawsuit would have never come to pass or at least be over by now) or that if they did/do, enough of 'us' would be happy to jump in to keep on keepin' on. It's just a car club, right?

[Carrera GT]

As to the posts here---I am delighted that Sebastian has come here to ask questions but it is a bit odd as has been pointed out. And, interesting as it is to kick around how the club should operate----go try starting such a thread there.

Let's look at the current R situation:

---now there are "open" meetings. Never before but still the Trustee meetings are closed.

---there was at great cost a "cash basis" audit not asked for and which does nothing but put the tax return numbers on 8.5x11 paper.

---there is now, sort of, a budget.

---there is, Joris is told, an Audit Committee

---minutes are posted (the same ones that they resisted in discovery and now ask for a protective order about.

Yep. Some movement. Still, exactly why do you think this has happened?

This is the only forum where the serious issues can be discussed. Many and I mean many are afraid to post any criticism on the R Forum.

Well said Steve - with all these discussions, opinions, and ideas going on, the fact is it has ONLY been due to your effort to take action - to legally not only represent your position as a Registry member - but also represent the high percentage of those afraid to say anything on the sidelines that make up the Registry membership as well.

Not one of the points you note above would have ever taken place without the action taken so far - I happen to believe there is much, much more to come.

The question stated does need others to answer as well:

Why do you think these initial changes have happened?

Michael Doyle

[356JAGER]

The question stated does need others to answer as well:

Why do you think these initial changes have happened?

Michael Doyle

Two lawsuits. The inference being that if they were doing nothing wrong, there would be none of the changes, cosmetic and superficial as they may be. Unfortunately the subscribers are so enamored of the glossy rag that their dues gets them, that they are, as rag contributor Sebastian Gaeta, states, 'good with the R's present operation'. The acquiescence of these fellows only contributes to
the length and expense of this conflict and makes more likely the
end result being a club that no longer exists. Maybe that will be
a good thing, as the local clubs seem to better represent the true spirit of a car club.