My starter motor

[roy mawbey]

Guys especially Mic,

This is a continuing saga. After Mic's problem of starting ( not sure he solved it? ) I advised a while ago my earthing problem was improved by rectifying the soldered on washer on the battery box floor where the factory had only put 2 blobs of solder on it to captivate. The backside of the washer was rusty and dirty.

Anyway cranking was faster I could live with it until a week ago when the crank became really slow very suddenly.I double checked all earths and the battery. Now removed the starter and sort of suspect the solinoid coil connection with the copper strap to the starter casing. Looks like it has got hot.
I know I could drill out the 4 rivets of the end cap and possibly see really dirty copper contacts but as the armature or field windings or the connections inside might be suspect I have bitten the bullet and found a company that restores 6 volt 356 starters for the main 356 restorers over here.

He was fully aware of everything I mentioned to him, he will check each part and has done everything I thought of. Also he knew the old 356A solinoids are no longer available ( later versions are ).

I just could not face getting on my back again to put it back without knowing for sure the motor is in correct working order. If it didn't then work I know it must be the long 10mm core starter wire.

I think I can trust this guy he is doing many 356 starter rebuilds.

We will see. Not often am I defeated but in this case I am.

Roy

[neilbardsley]

If you don't have any success with your starter restorer then I can highly recommend Rob at Broadway Elec. He is used by PRS, Roger Bray etc.

http://www.broadwayelectrical.co.uk/

PS I had a funny with my starter the other day. I came back to the 356 after it had sat for 2 weeks (which is pretty typical) and the started didn't turn when I turned the key. I did however see amps go massively down to the negative. I waited tried again, waited for 30 seconds tried again and it sprang into life. No issues after that. I guessing maybe the solenoid switch was getting stuck? After reading the issues you had getting your start on/off I'm not in a hurry to take off.

[Phil Planck]

[MMW]

My starter issues have not been solved. Updated my thread.

[roy mawbey]

Phil and Neil,

The starter I have is the EED 0.5/6 L35 fitted to my original 1959 716 transmission. But, it still has only 2 brushes? I even bought 4 brushes some years ago and never found the positions to enter more than 2. In fact I have found that more than strange I expected the extra 2 and the better power!Thanks so much for all that info Phil that's useful for anyone with a starter problem.

Neil, my starter left for Rob at Broadway electrical all carefully packed early yesterday. I spoke to him first about 10 days ago and like you say, he has work from 3 companies including PRS and Roger Brays. In a conversation lasting 5 minutes he answered all my questions perfectly. He knows those starters inside out. In fact I said to him I thought the solinoid coil stud that takes the early flat copper strap, to the connection that goes inside the motor casing looked to me as though it had got very hot, at the soloinod end. I asked how would he get the 4 rivets off the solinoid end cap to get to the copper contacts inside. I nearly!! filed them and thought of bolts. He had removed them often and even rewired them! He will check field and armature winding's first and solinoid as well.
By the way, you can not effectively check the motor operation off the car without having the the Bosch holding fixure to support the end shaft that goes in the transmission bushing. Without support the power could jerk that starter off the bench. So many current starters have the end shaft fully supported in the starter casing.

His experience will I hope isolate my problem to the motor itself. We will see and I will report back. ( the starter bushing is quite new so its not that causing the slow crank )Thanks guys for your help and recommendation.

Roy

[Phil Planck]

Roy
Looks like your starter is in a good shop. Do you have your trans number handy. Would be interesting to see if it falls after the switch to the 4 brush. Maybe you have one of the super rare "transisiton" starters.
Phil

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

The serial number of my transmission is 26639 359716 ( made March 59 type 716 )

That number seems some way into production of the 0.5/6 series so can't quite understand why only 2 brushes.

I just hope he finds the problem, when I bought the car in the 60's it started all the time fast even with 6 volt.

We will see, the job though is a pain laying on your back.

Roy

[Phil Planck]

Roy
Interesting. I suppose it's possible to put a 2 brush end cap on a 4 brush starter. Would be interested in the repair shops assessment of this. Maybe they could put a 4 brush end cap on it.

[roy mawbey]

Yes Phil its rather odd. The starter casing is stamped with the correct numbers as though it a 4 brush system.

I will keep you informed of progress. I don't think this guy will release it unless it will perform under load a reasonable starter crank. We will see!

Roy

[roy mawbey]

[jacques]

Hi Roy
If i am not mistaken the shops that do rotating electrical repair usually replace the solenoid. they use refurbished bendix drives and the hi-cost item would be to replace or rebuild the armature. here we can have it done for less than $75 assuming a good armature. Cores used to be easy to find but that is not the case anymore. i feel your pain
j

[roy mawbey]

Jacques,

You are of course correct if I had been able ( or he ) to buy the same early solinoid then might well have done so. The later 356 versions are possible to get but he confirmed the solinoid action is okay on mine. ( It never actually failed to engage pinion in the ring gear.

A while ago saw a small number of original NOS solinoid's for sale all gone now!

This guy rebuilds starters for PRS (Mike Smith ) and Roger Bray as well as others. I am hoping he will finish it this week and I will then be back on the road.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

The motor is finished and on its way back to me. Speaking to Rob the engineer he told me it behaves on his test bed perfectly now. He got the riveted on solinoid end cap off ( its now bolted on ) and inside was a real mess. He attended to the single copper contact first and then the main starter copper connection. The coil connection stud which welded itself up was more difficult. The copper contact in the end cap had to be shot blasted. He is very happy with the result. He replaced also the brushes I had put in and the back bushing.

All I have to do is get the motor back in place. Been doing some tidying up underneath the car whilst its on axle stands. I miss not driving it, makes me realise they are fun when they are going.

I wonder how the internal areas are in Mic's solinoid? Is his cap riveted on with the 4 rivets? My armature and field windings were all okay so maybe his problem is solinoid related with a high resistance.

Anyone in the UK with starter or dynamo problems should give Rob at Broadway Electrical Services in Essex a call on 01375 372782 if they are as stumped as I was. I will report back with results after I fit it.

Roy

[neilbardsley]

Rob is a top bloke. I'm very confident your starter motor will work well. He offers a life time warranty. I called him, quite a while ago, to see how he was after he had some surgery. He was a little surprised that to take my social call but recovered his sense of humour to suggest that I was checking on the condition of his life time warranty

[roy mawbey]

Neil,

My starter motor arrived back today. It really looks as new, a really nice job indeed. I will take and post a few Photo's of it when I fit it and try it out.

He fully advised the work he did on it and the solinoid. If it works as good as it looks I will be very pleased. I guess I got the same sort of pleasant surprise on opening the box, as maybe Justin gets on seeing re-chromed work from Victor Miles ( if his name is correct from my memory)

I think you get what you pay for these days and in this starter motor case I know I did the right thing going to him.

Roy