door gaps and fender brace

[roy mawbey]

So, rather than put these photos on the other threads concerning their excellent information on getting the best possible gaps on door shuts and also improving the under front wing (fender) front brace I thought I would post pics of mine:

1). The front door shut on my RHD car. This is the area where the door closes to the front wing. Justin has performed a perfect shut line here. My wing and door are original at the area shown in my photos. I have history going back to 1960 so presume thats the case. In middle 70's I started doing bodywork on the car. This continued for around 3 years on and off. Although my interior has never really
really been restored apart from new rubber mats and some repairs to the front seats, I have resprayed my car myself twice in the past 44 years the last time 23 years ago.
I could never understand ( still can't ) how some get the shut line width so perfect at the top area where by photo's are taken. As the door opens when it reaches the area shown in the photos it almost touches the fender arc. I notice the gender arc is quite thick on the edges maybe that doesn't help but its not possible on my car to get say 3mm at this point. Vertically I can achieve this but then it touches at the top.( I do show one pic of the closed door its not as good ( nowhere near ) as Justins effort.







2). Attached as I said I would a few shots of the fender front brace. This I welded ina small area about 35 years ago. I cannot see where I made the repair now!!! Maybe at the headlight bucket connection? I never removed the bucket or the brace the car was and still is sound in ths area. Both threads on this work have interested me. You both have made a nice job, looks just like mine but I have covered my eforts in the black stuff.





Roy

[JTR70]

Hi Roy,

Will do my best to explain; at least the way I understand it.


The biggest deciding factor as to how tight you can make the gaps and still have ample clearance is the final thickness or build up of your filler, primer, and paint top coats. The one constant is obviously the fulcrum at the door hinges. Once your material starts building higher and further away from this point the more space and time you have to give it to clear the edge of the fender. Simple terms you need wider gap right?

This tight "wing" or rotational edge is more of an illusion created by the steeper angle the edge has been cut and shaped at.

I learned this one the hard way. As I was cutting the gaps in by hand for that final 10% with my makeshift tool here I held it in a straight full-on perpendicular approach. Work perfectly for the verticle portion. As I made the turn upward I mistakingly held that same cutting angle. Once I took a break I saw that the upper corner and gap only looked good and consistant from just a couple of vantage points. Once I ran my eyes over it from varying angles the gap and approach was off and looked too wide in some ways. Had to try it again.

The answer was a very steep cut angle as I rounded the turn. The wing area your speaking about. Once I recut this area at this new approach the gap was beautiful and consistent no matter what Angle I looked at it from. Just one of those subtle things.

Never "officially" measured what these gaps ended up being. I took several and its consistenly running just shy of 3mm. (2mm+)

Here is a shot with the door adjar getting ready to dive under the fender. Good clearance but just barely. I have to stay very alert and careful as this goes into final paint but it will workout.


Here is a shot of the wing area with the door adjar.


Here you can see that the outer plane or face changes to a much steeper angle as it makes the turn. It is this varying plane that creates that tight consistent gap with clearance.

I hope this didn't confuse you further. Let me know. Nice job on that fender brace BTW I would be hard pressed to tell that it was ever repaired! You really have a nice car Roy!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Many thanks for the explanation. I just don't think the factory in the 50's could have acheived better than your result. Your final photos explain the situation very well. I think also its so important like you to remember the paint thickness when getting the gaps perfect.

When I look at the thickness of metal at the top arc of your fender it looks so correct. It cannot be as thick as mine. Its very precise to my eye, mine on both front fenders is thicker. I am going to take a few more photos, I want to clarify actually for myself how they finished that edge. I cannot remember back to when I rubbed it down last time and this thickness is so important.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Took a few photo's today of the door shut. Firstly I am happier than I thought I would be looking closely at the way the sheet metal was folded around the top arc. Its the paint thickness that made me wonder what I would see. All the work looks factory just my spraying lets that down. I attach another one of the door and I do have still the plastic 80mm approx plastic disc that cover that hole that enables you to gain mirror access but, the plastic legs have broken off.

The final pic again shows how close the door comes to scraping the fender arc.

Yours still look so much better.








Roy

[JTR70]

Hi Roy,

Thank you for saying so! This narrow a gap I would only attempt on a coupe. The chassis flex on an open car would cause some problems for sure. I'm sure that factory wanted consistancy throughout thier production run so a wider gap relieves alot of potential trouble. Yes, the build up at the edges is as thin as I could get it. I spent many hours lightly taping the fender edge out where I needed then follow up block sanding to level it all out. I had to repeat that process several times in some areas. This did not come easy for sure. Thanks again! Justin

Just saw the new pics Roy. Looks like we both have about the same clearance in that area. One Thing I did notice is I left my edges sharper where your factory edges are more blunt. This would also account for the tighter fitment. If I where to really round-off my edges the gap would certainly appear wider. Justin

[Phil Planck]

Roy
I agree with Justin that your hem appears fatter than his. This could be due to paint build up or possibly not as tight a crimp. I made a new rear fender patch using the Roland technique and had to clamp the hem down as shown with the Vice Grips in one of the pics below. I have a very tight gap vertically and may need to move the door slightly rearward. The gap at the top is formed with lead filler on the door, which has all been removed from this door so hopefully when added back, it will look like Justin's. Good tip on the angle at the top Justin.

[JTR70]

Thank you Phil, Beautiful Work! You made your own panel out of some sheet stock versus a vendor panel; very nice! I am impressed with the way you spooned that rounded pinch seam edge so cleanly; nice door gap! I see many hours and alot of care taken here. Great job!
Justin

[Phil Planck]

Maybe getting a little off topic Justin, but that was my second attempt. My first try, which took much, much longer used a hammer form and the right angle flange was shrunk to form the curve. Looked great until I put the door on. Gap at top was terrible so threw it away and used the technique in Ron Roland's book. Much faster and more accurate, as it uses your door as the template for folding the gap.

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

So nice to see how you did that with your fabricated fender part. I looked at that arc yesterday and wondered how I woul;d attempt that. Frightening I guess when you fist tried after all the work.

Thanks

Roy ( And I agree the crimping is less perfect on my car than Justins. And I guess he is also correct cabs and speedsters probably did flex more even when new)