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Re bodied cars and Kardex

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  • Re bodied cars and Kardex

    I am workng on a restoration of a T2 car with a strange body number. I have paperwork and import data on the car since it entered the US in 1969 that looks and tracks OK. A receipt for a replacement SC engine from Stoddard in 1969 when the original 1300S was stolen while in us conversion on the docks in NJ. I bought the car from the owner who bought it in Germany in 69 and have a good history from him. I requested the COA from the archive a few weeks ago. The Museum's reply was two lines long and said the car was re bodied to a T-5 in 1961. Oh boy. Here we go.

    In disassembly now, I have hood, deck lid, passengers door, bumpers that have matching paint shop 3 digit stamps. Instruments and electrical dates are correct . The rest of the body has the same original paint color under the carpet and dash. The original paint is on all the sheet metal except the drivers door. The only strange thing it has an un numbered T-1 drivers door, and indications of a poor repair to the drivers longitudinal. The rest of the car is straight and sound with no evidence on any repairs or accidents. Looks like is slid into a rock and had the repair and door fixed. The car was re sprayed red with this topcoat over a primed drivers door. And the original paint.

    From my disassembly and research I have the entire complete body, but the archive says it was replaced. It looks like a complete car and no evidence of replaced chassis.

    Before I go to media blast, does anyone know what the factory would have done with a old replaced body? I have what appears to be a complete T-2 car. It had body mounted fog lights and a roll bar in the past, a repair on the drivers door, but the rest of the car appears to be original and intact.
    The only re bodies I have seen in the past were big roll over or totals. The only re body I have seen was a 61 Dratz roadster with a T-6 body and a 9 digit replacement body number mine has 4.

    Your thoughts and comments please. Do I have a car made by the guy that took home one part a day, until he had a complete one? Anyone know how Reutter disposed of the old used body parts
    Pushed around since 1966.

  • #2
    Hi,

    Well----you could buy the new Carrera book and look it up---------or----post the four digit number here and I'll advise.

    Steve Heinrichs

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    • #3
      Steve Heinrichs

      Thanks for the reply. like your books. Export paperwork, hood and trunk tag say 5248 no door post. factory originally said 5O Coupe. I think you got a call from Tim Goodrich on it a few weeks ago. Its a T-2 Body.

      Thanks
      Pushed around since 1966.

      Comment


      • #4
        Unfortunately, I am missing info on early '50s cars. I'd guess 50248 was original car.

        See page 477 in new book----you may be able to ascertain the 13xxx chassis number they used in 1961 to rebuild.

        Steve Heinrichs

        Comment


        • #5
          I believe that Porsche required a vin no stating that it was destroyed to sell a replacement body. they did not verify the actual status of the replaced vin. providing a good no was all that was needed to get a new body without buying the entire car. Even some dealers would sell cars that had a replacement body and install exchange motors and transmissions and pay the import duty on parts not vehicles. So your car should be what is was originally and have nothing to do with the replacement no.
          j

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          • #6
            Steve

            Thanks, this is a T-2 not a preA. A ruby red 540 paint shop stamp 914. Re spray looks like signal red but missing the blue hue when polished. Original color comes back under a single layer of primer.

            John
            Pushed around since 1966.

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            • #7
              John, thanks for joining us here and Welcome! Sounds like an interesting car. Best of luck with your inquiry.
              Justin
              Justin Rio

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              • #8
                Very interesting. A lot of T5/ T6 cars onwards seem to have a chassis number under the lock plate and the ident plates. That does not apply to the T2 cars.

                The petrol tank has a date stamp on it.at the bottom lip.

                I can see why the 4 digit number confuses. The 1950 cars ran from 5001-5410.

                Its true an engine replaced will usually have the starting KD ( kunde dienst ) followed by the number KD standing for customer service dept.

                You would think the body would have the same.I just don't see that a T2 would be replaced by a T5 body. Sure some items would fit but the complete body.I don't see it.

                Tried google got nowhere but a guy who got a car fitted at the factory with a body received a 4 digit number for it.??

                The story is in this link below if it opens up for you.

                http://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-356/mystery-porsche-chassis-1021/


                They say maybe a number of cars with a chassis number of this type were proiduced and its not known where they are.

                I still think a total wreck would have been scrapped. I have seen even in my factory workshop manuals body repair on cellete factory jigs cars with bad front or rear damage even with the roof but not total.

                Interesting indeed. I will ask a question to Mike Smith of PRS over here regarding the chassis number you have. Like Steve he knows a lot on the 356A cars. Maybe Steve knows if repaired bodies were given numbers KD prefix as well.

                Roy

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                • #9
                  Well----not easy.

                  I do not recall talking to Tim re this but maybe---

                  Anyway, as to '1021', for years many thought this was another Abarth. It is not. It was a spare. I thought we noted in the book but I do not see this am. I will look more.

                  Anyway, the only four digit non spare non-pre-A that I know of is 56xx built for Wendler (fascinating---two halves since his son was so tall; the car is known today).

                  As to this 52xx non-Pre-A, I am a little lost. Cannot tell from spares.

                  John, can you please send photo of data plate?

                  Steve Heinrichs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Steve I had not realized that the Abarths had replacement Reuter nos also but it is in the book. question isn't re bodied an inaccurate term the replacement bodies were new production not a repair besides being a different model say a T5 for a T2 also a coupe could replace a Speedster or Cab. is there a correlation of 1021 to a 130xx or did it maintain the original no.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, 'replacement' is not a perfect term but is what Porsche used overall.

                      The Abarth 10xx numbers were based upon replacement (as in 'spare') Reutter 13xxx numbers. All spares are listed in the book; some were used for or to repair 4-cam cars.

                      As John's car here...we need some photos.

                      There is no 12xxx, 13xxx correlation as you suggest.

                      Steve Heinrichs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Steve

                        Looking through the speedster book, by the color and paint shop stamps I would say I am looking at 84914. The archive says this car was re bodied as a T5 in 61. That said, all the original parts are together, I still have all the original red body parts for 84914. If this body was removed by the factory, and replaced with a T-5 fine, could the used parts be put on pre A chassis, modified to a T2 in the back for a 644 transmission? It looks original.

                        The body stamp and ID tag say 5248. Solid rivets in the tag. Old TUV and export paperwork say 5248. I have a good history from 1969, it's the rest of the story is what I am trying to figure out. The car has had a 4 point roll bar welded in, and body mounted fog lights. Could it maybe have been reconstructed as a rally or race car. The pan and lower side less the drivers longitudinal all look original. I am not familiar enough with preA's underside to tell the difference T1-T2. The body is T2.
                        I am not looking at a 300 point car, it's going to be a driver. Just trying to make sense out of the history.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Body stamp attached

                        Thanks
                        John
                        Pushed around since 1966.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks!

                          I'll look up the Speedster. Please send photo of data plate.

                          Steve Heinrichs

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                          • #14
                            13155 was a spare related to 84914. It was a cabriolet.

                            Steve Heinrichs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Steve

                              The T5 overhaul is what the archive says, but I still am looking at the original 540 body and T2 parts. Makes no sense.

                              John
                              Pushed around since 1966.

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