An ignition switch story

[roy mawbey]

About a month ago my original ignition key would not turn to engage the starter. I pushed it in and out many times until finally it did work. I lightly lubed the switch and all worked well until last week end. Luckily I had just driven the car home took the key out of the switch and then when restarting it would enter the slot but was tight at the end but would not rotate. Tried everything no luck.

So, I know guys have been lucky in the states with locksmiths but I have come to the conclusion after 60 years my old switch is probably worn out either a spring has broken or a pin jammed. So I looked for a replacement. Here in the UK two companies Roger Bray and Karmann Connection can supply Bosch switches they say will fit the 356A but the terminals are screw not bullet connectors.

Having removed the switch the original loom is perfect and I don't want to cut those bullets off. So found on the Stoddard NLA site a repro made by them to an identical version of my switch and with 2 K100 Porsche keys. The Bosch keys are not Porsche keys. So even though a lot more expensive have ordered the Stoddard version.

Now....it was strange I read an old mail on the internet about fitting the switch and installing the 6 wires. They spoke about a special washer with tabs that will hold the switch in place on the dash as you tighten the chrome domed nut with the holes on the circumference. I used a converted spring caliper to undo this nut and never saw this special washer on retraction? The large nut was there so until I saw a photo this week of Justin's 356 Carrera dash panel it would have stayed that way. But.. his ignition switch hole has 2 slots stamped in it 180 degree apart. Now .. my RHD dash only has a plain hole stamped! I went to the garage and felt up behind the dash and low and behold the special washer had fallen into the groove at the bottom of the dash. The tabs were pressed flat!It had fallen off as I retracted it. Were the slots forgotten on RHD 356A dash panels I wonder??

I thank Justin for his photo as I was so confused on that washer and I hope my bullets will fit the new switch when it arrives.

Roy

[neilbardsley]

Could you not just screw the bullets connector into the screw receptor of a new switch?

[bbspdstr]

The "problem" with ignition switches in old cars is that high amps went through the thin contacts and contact plates to do their designed functions but were meant for a lesser life span than 53 or many more years until today.

" I know guys have been lucky in the states with locksmiths...."

Roy, Shirley you jest! (Reference to a line an old comedy movie "Airplane," also from here in the States.)

I and many others globally USED to get absolutely superb service from my first partner in business, "Das Keyman." Now, while others offer similar services in locks and keys for old Porsches, I prefer a 'work-around.'

I would disassemble the switch carefully. Uncrimping the staked metal lock section into pockets of the Bakelite electrical section is tricky to do without breaking the Bakelite, so I made a special tool out of another tool for that. The center pin for the rotating lock stem is also somewhat a test of patience to remove the retaining circlip from the electrical end but fortunately, other circlips are available (e.g. Stoddard) if the original is too 'opened up.'.

While apart, the contact plate may be assessed. Alas, Brad Ripley had those made for NLA years ago, primarily for Das Keyman to use for switch rebuilds done in quantity and subsequently sold to anyone that needed one...but now Stoddard/NLA is out of stock and "looking for a new vendor." A shame, as those 3-bump brass plates get burned and problematic for consistent operation. For now, cleaning, straightening or redoming the bumps/contacts and soldering of cracks or missing metal is the only remedy.

This is why a relay is important in the starting circuit, so the switch is just a low amp trigger and cause the flow to the starter solenoid, not take the flow.

On to the mechanical aspect.....I would disassemble and remove the tiny springs and blades in the keyway and reassemble. Yes, ANY K100 (or 300 if that style is the one in question) key or even a screwdriver would then turn the switch, but a discreet on-off switch under the dash on 15 to the coil or 50 to the starter solenoid would defeat that very unlikely event.

Then the 2 parts are reunited, carefully, after being termporarily taped together for bench testing with a continuity meter.

Hey, I have seen owners just leave the original 'broken' switch in place for appearances and make neat "hotwire" arrangements through individual switches under the dash and out of sight. Usually, that included a heavy-duty master switch as a total battery disconnect, a la racecars but with the "key" being a removable handle.

For Neil, no, the opening in the screw-type switch is too small for the bullet ends to pass through. I just unsolder those bullet ends and place them in a small plastic bag for the glove box, should retro-fitting be desired in the future. The soldered wire end is then perfect for the earlier or repro switch.

Recent eye surgery has made this posting a challenge, but I've missed posting lately so 'I've given it a go, old chaps!'

Bruce

Addendumb: I meant to post the differences in the orientation plates for the ignition switches.



One the left is the weak aftermarket ring. The dents (2) are to work with the switch and the dash hole slots to deter the whole unit from turning when the key is rotated. The original on the right allows a variable orientation and there are much more pronounced detents (2) for the dash slots. Yes, Roy...I believe your dash is the anomaly. Even being RHD is an anomaly to me!

[roy mawbey]

Ah Bruce,

Thank you for the interesting reply regarding my switch. I make some 'bullet' points ( weak pun )below in answer to those.

1).Although the Stoddard switch is in the UK now its not been delivered yet. I am most interested in looking at it on arrival.
2). I though the same as you, the screwed version wire location holes would be too small for the bullets to go through. Logical thinking by Neil though !!
3). Had heard of Tony the key man for years over here there might be Tony but if you need parts......
4). The indents around the metal securing the body to the bakelite I took note of when I removed it. I have pin punches and ma

[roy mawbey]

Guys what is going on??I never pressed submit with either of the 2 above replies??? What did my fingers press I wonder???
To continue:
If I got the body apart and if I managed to get to the tumbler plates and springs I just wonder if I could trust it over time. I often wondered about the copper contacts as well. But since my starter solinoid strip and contact clean up, my starting speeds hot or cold are really perfect!

The new switch I hope will show no difference to old T2 version. I hope it is the 10 hole version. I have 6 wires to put on it. I was surprised at the number of different ignition switches they used over the years. It would seem my late T2 is similar to the early BT5.

The special washer is identical to the rusty one you showed on the right of your post Bruce. I will file some entry slots for the tangs.

The curved spring loaded adjustable calipers I have that fit into the round domed location cap work well so I can tighten it.

I wanted it to look the same and have a K100 key. I probably will not fiddle with the old switch but as I have a spare original key leave it complete in the spares box. To apply a switch to the coil wire would deter I think. When I used to leave the car sometimes years ago I removed the rotor. Don't travel far these days in it!

Sorry for such a long and broken up reply! But thanks again for your input.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Almost one week and the ignition switch from Stoddard has not yet arrived. Not the fault of Stoddard they dispatched it fine and it arrived in the UK in 2 days. The item is held up in customs. I do have a tracking advice from the UK handler so hope it will clear as soon as they advise the VAT payment and handling charges.

I have filed out the slots for the special washer. I wondered why on removal the switch rotated, hopefully that should not happen again.

We will see hopefully soon!

Roy

[S.J.Szabo]

Well, maybe three's a charm.... Testing, 1,2,3.

Hmm... lost that post somehow.... If at first you don't succeed.... But more succintly this time...

I like the idea of an ignition relay, but as yet, I haven't been able to come up with a likely candidate. Parameters are part of the problem; 60A, 80A on the starter circuit (for a 12v system)? Anyone find one in a metal can to blend into the under-dash environs? Can it speak German?

Anyone have a mfg. name/number/mug shot/etc.?

Thanks, in any case.

[roy mawbey]

Well guys it took around 3 weeks for the ignition switch to arrive. The UK customs just held it for ages and ages. Finally after some calls and payment of VAT it came. I have taken photos of the new ignition switch against the original and what a perfect reproduction Stoddard have had made. The original made by Kostal in Germany has been reproduced so well. At $200- its not cheap but worth every penny to me. Installed it a week ago and its working great. I will post the photos soon. I have kept my original with key in my spares just in case in the future someone want to restore it.

Roy

[356JAGER]

I highly recommend these units by Joe Leoni, now available from Bill Block.
http://blocks-books.com/BLOCKS-BOOKS/356Electrics.html

[213532]

Roy: a couple of suggestions. There is another "key guy", Dan Roman in Florida, that has been doing excellent repairs on locks and switches. He can most likely rebuild your switch.

If, however, you are forced to replace the switch with one with screw terminals, you might do what I have done with the replacement rear turn signals with screw terminals. I have made pigtails with the correct color wires. One end is tinned for the screw terminal and the other is a female bullet connector. That way you don't have to modify your existing wiring. I use the rubber sleeves to insulate the conector.

Mike

[roy mawbey]

Yes Mike, thats a way round the bullet and screw connection side. However I liked the fact the new repro switch so well made has not only the bullet connections but also uses K100 keys so identical to the original apart from key number.

Here is an view of the Stoddard switch alongside my 60 year old original. The A-T2 switch had 10 connections the new one eleven thats the only difference. I used the switch marked connection holes and the original bullet ends fitted perfectly.

You are lucky to have some good lock repair guys in the US. Second photo shows the 11 hole new version with Pa hole not used.
The first photo shows the new item on the left old on the right.


Second photo shows 10 hole original on my 1959 T2


Third photo shows the new 11 hole switch with Pa not used


Forth photo shows switch wiring I used.



Roy

[roy mawbey]

Should have included a shot of the new switch after fitting it to my car. Looks original !



Roy

[213532]

Looks great! Congrats!