Carrera Motors---Bill Russell

[jacques]

Hi Michael
It is in Quotes since i attribute it to others.
j

[Carrera GT]

Hi Michael
It is in Quotes since i attribute it to others.
j

Jacques,

hmm...Ok. So you attribute it to others also using the "Evil one" and then include Steve H. in this description of yours as well? I guess that is what keeps me puzzled, and who are these "others" by the way?

Michael Doyle

[Dakota]

Hi All
its me Bill Russell, and I am still looing for a four cam to suit a '57 coupe. The car in question stated life as a RHD GS but was raced pretty much from new, it lost its original motor many years ago but had a push rod motor installed and was raced through the seventies and eighties in the UK still with a push rod engine installed, it has recently changed hands and its new owner would very much like to install the correct type of motor. I have placed wanted ads here and there and asked a fair few people but have not got terribly far, the world of the four cam seems a tricky one to enter although a bottomless pit of cash may help. Now recently a chap from the USA contacted me with a very original sounding 547/1, he had acquired it along with a bunch of other stuff from a long time Porsche mechanic who was having a retirement clear out, he told me he was not sure of its value so make an offer, I did not want to go too low ball or jump in with too high an offer on something I did not know enough about, but maybe I should have dived in anyway as this stuff does not grow on trees and this chap has received what I think is a pretty good offer from else where so I am possibly back to square one again, meanwhile it could be argued that rare Porsche stuff will just rise in value and these cars and their jewel like motors will become dusty investments with values that preclude them from being belted around the countryside and this boat has been missed. Anyway I am glad to have been directed to this site by Mr Lefriant, its a small world as I have built engines with his valves in. Bill .

[Steve Heinrichs]

Bill,

Welcome.

Yes, acquiring a 4-cam motor is not easy and, if not one currently running, you may well be looking at literally years of "rebuilding". No parts at the local Porsche store, either.

I think we can help on this Forum. Not so many RHD 1957 GS cars. You may not want to disclose the chassis number. I understand. Still, to get started---are you looking for 906xx, 907xx or 909xx motor?

Steve Heinrichs

[Dakota]

Hi Steve and all
its no great secret, the car is not a '57 its a '56, I had brain fade my old racer is a '57, anyway the chassis number is 58162 and the original engine number was 90743. The car spent its early life out in Africa and was raced there pretty much from new and during this time the original motor was damaged and changed, by the time it got to the Uk in the seventies it had a push rod motor fitted and was raced by a Mr Lucas and later in the eighties his daughter Caroline was its regular driver, she still races a Porsche today. At present the car is running a tuned push rod engine but it has got many of the ancillary parts necessary to fit a four cam back in. I was a little surprised at the comment about years of rebuilding, obviously I realise its far from straight forward to deal with old exotics but I thought the parts situation with four cams was not too awful these days, how are the Capricorn parts viewed? Many thanks Bill Russell.

[Steve Heinrichs]

Hi Bill,

Certainly others can, and hopefully will, chime in but I do think that rebuild times are long as are the waitlists.

As to Capricorn---I've been there. I think they are first rate people who do a first rate job. That said, it all depends on how much an owner values authenticity of a 4-cam. At the end of the day, their 4-cam motors are 'new', not original (let alone original numbers for a specific car). My view is that an authentic original motor (or a number close to it
will always add the most value.

Steve Heinrichs

[jacques]

Hi Bill
The Capricorn parts seem to be of the highest quality. That said they are not user freindly both in price since they are doing custom parts not automotive production and they are not necessarily interchangeable with the originals. The building of 4-Cam engines properly entails a level of proficiency only found in a few race/restoration shops. Yes you can get them done but few would consider it since the effort involved yields greater monetary rewards in simpler engine endeavors.
j

[Carrera GT]

I believe up to now, Capricorn is remaking the 587 series of 4-cam motors/parts Only - this is the plain bearing crankshaft motor for the later T6 B/C Carrera 2 - a 2000cc version...similar to the earlier plain bearing 692 1600cc version.

Bill, the motor you need for proper model and period matching to the 1956 Carrera is, as you've mentioned, a type 547/1. This is a roller bearing crankshaft - the original 1500cc version. The motor parts between a 587 and a 547 or 547/1 motor are not interchangeable.

Michael Doyle

[Vic Triol]

Hello Bill, Welcome to the forum.

[jacques]

Michael
Capricorn makes roller crank parts also the crank and early heads. a lot of the other parts are common to both engines.
j

[Carrera GT]

Michael
Capricorn makes roller crank parts also the crank and early heads. a lot of the other parts are common to both engines.
j

Jacques...that's interesting about Capricorn. I have heard about their interest to make other 4-cam model motor parts, but only see the 587 C2 plain bearing stuff available on their web-site. Do you have a link to show more?

Also, by example, what are the parts that can be interchanged between a 547 1.5L and 587 2.0L ?

Thanks. Michael

[Dakota]

Hi All
I am definitely after an original 547 not a completely new engine, I think Capricorn probably list whole engines more to demonstrate the range of parts they can supply rather than an intention to sell many whole units. I have rebuilt a number of "normal" 356, 911 motors and spent a few years rebuilding Aston straight sixes and V8's and they can get into a bit of a state with the six cylinder blocks cracking down the centre of their main bearing saddles and both corroding like buggery around the bases of their liners, and some stuff on Ferrari's which has not been too bad to date, but no hands on stuff with Porsche's ferocious little four cam. While I am here why has the roller bearing crank got a bit of a poor reputation, Porsche obviously believed in it to start with as they offered it in their push rod motors for a while, was it more user error rather than a short coming from Hirth's end? Many thanks Bill Russell.

[Dakota]

Me Again
I would reply drop Vic Triol (Vitriol, am I missing something) a line but how do you send a message on here, thanks Bill.

[Vic Triol]

Thanks Bill.

[jacques]

Hi MD and Bill
first comment
Roller cranks are great motorcycles and outboard use them. What makes the Hirth crank problematic and also a great engineering feat are the Zero angle bevel couplings and two pitch tie bolts. My opinion rebuildabilty is not a requirement and a throw away crank could be done for the price of a rebuild. there are many parts common to all 4-Cam engines. counter shaft all the cam drive gears (3 different length horizontal shafts) cam shafts cam lobes cam bearings shaft bearings valves guides springs retainers keepers lash caps. Yes there are different versions that are improved and there a different stages of tune but having the 2.0 parts increases the serviceability of the early engines.
j