REPLACEMENTS

[jacques]

Hi All
yes we are all sad that our 4-Cam mentors are going to the the the bench racing final destination. What concerns me is that the present owners are siting on their "investments" and not using the cars as they were intended. They are more concerned that they maintain the original Kadex nos and will repair any distrested casting and use marginal parts to achieve a pretty engine. I am most concerned with the availability of roller cranks. Lets face it they were intended for a short life and any rework will have a shorten usable use. There is nothing that requires extreme competency about these engines but who would want to expose themselves to the liability of rebuilding these at any reasonable fee and have to source parts that have not been properly vetted. I am trying to do what i can for the community but i am getting more concerned that it is of no use.
j

[bbspdstr]

Jacques,

I share your concern and would add that the issues in the 4-cam world extend across all of the older Porsche scene. No parts or bad parts still around that carry the blessed NOS label (but are still bad parts) or bad repro. Those seem to make our jobs more difficult. And expensive. And here we are, trying to figure it all out. How did we get to care more about "matching numbers" than a really good automobile that drives as intended?

I have owned or co-owned three Carreras and restored a handful of others. I have a Speedster in my shop now for which you are providing an engine. That said, I know precious little about the engines, so please tell me/us why a roller crank cannot be replaced by a plain bearing crank custom made by SCAT....and on through other expendables as you are doing now with your connections.

I remember the boon of finding a Pinto bearing would fit a 2 liter engine and recall the idea that "if it can't be seen but it works fine, why not?" OK, it gets expensive no matter what. I was told years ago by Alex Finigan of Paul Russell & Co. that: "If you think restoration is expensive, try preservation!"

My premis for the future of old Porsches and all things in our lives that are good or bad, everything revolves around money. Thus, I see several reasons you may have a concern. First is demographic; those who really are/were passionate about all these 'old' Porsches are also getting old or gone. Now, a more limited audience.

Second is that even when new, 4-cam cars and parts were/are really expensive as compared to models made in higher volumes. Thus, again, a limited audience.

Third is the user vs (static) collector vs risk of financial 'hit.' The ability to own has to be counted as equal, but the maintenance and repairs those who actually use their 4-cam cars must face is greater than even the cost of the most comprehensive insurance for a collector of static 'art.' Is there to be a declared winner?

Of what I see here on the East Coast, those who would average mileage of 10k/year are down to a few hundred, if that. Yes, some good 356s are being driven more than others but they are not the everyday vehicles we grew up with.

There has become a wider divide in how much and what kind of passion and caring is still with us. It was ALWAYS status given to us, real or fake, by an older Porsche. Kit car versions were spawned by this.

Then, some us with no money or need for automotive status would scrape together $500 for a Speedster because they were so much FUN and could be maintained by most individuals (even me!). Not driving them the way they were meant to be driven absolutely thins that audience.

Factor in attrition to the equation that includes the Law of Supply and Demand and aging demographics and financial concerns at any age...and it's easy to see things negatively. Add "nothing lasts forever" and our concerns grow......until we come to grips with our own mortality. My son didn't want my Speedster so I sold it to someone my age who did. (That "Market Value" could now be doubled, thus the concept of "investment") Made sense to me at the time. The new owners daughters may want the Speedster, may not...and by then, someone who still CARES may get a super deal on that antique .... and the whole cycle may begin all over again. Hell, whoever that may be may want to work on these simple mechanical objects and on and on. That was my original "replacements" (techs) suggestions for the here and now.

In the meantime, we just keep on truckin' and realize what a long strange trip it's been. When the music's over, turn out the lights.

Regards,
Bruce

[jacques]

Hi Bruce
Yes i think we are more comfortable with plain bearing cranks however just like the gear cam drives it is an intrinsic character of some engines. Just like when a transmission is rebuilt the normal process is to replace the bearings. My point is that a new roller crank would be preferable to a "repaired" crank and if the cost were comparable to the plain bearing replacement it would be acceptable. It may be too late to manufacture such a crank to fill the dwindling demand but i am pursuing the project. I feel your pain with the demographics. i am a technician not driven by the market so what i do may seem stupid.
AMDG
j

[Blechquäler]

Well guys, I know that there is an engineer working here in Germany on a project for new cranks, he has all the skills that you need for it, so please wait, it'll come....

[jacques]

Hi Gerd
My feeling is we have waited too long since the typical course of action is to either to service/repair the existing cranks or to substitute a plain bearing crank. Face it the majority of the existing roller cranks have very little time to end of life. i think that it would be responsible to have a fresh crank available for every RB engine that needs an overhaul. If Capricorn/Coswaite+Gardner committed to a run of say 100 cranks they could more than break even with a retail price of 10K-15K Euro which would be doable. The make it like original and not consider better engineering and materials and have a product that is untested and overpriced is getting us nowhere.
j

[Jbrooks]

Jacques

Around 1992 right after I retired from the military, I went to work in the aerospace industry. Being a 356 guy and having several cars I looked at remanufactruing parts. I was a purchasing and source manager so I had tons of good vendors. Back then lots of stuff was No Longer Available. I spoke to Brad Ripley, he had just left Stoddard, at his new NLA in Reno, on making 547 cranks, from new materials and modern processes. I had a couple still good sections and the bolts. I had a superior tool makes / machinist look over the few parts I still had and the factory blueprints. He felt it was doable, we even went as far as getting quotes on the forging each section and made a few prototypes sections.

At that time, before these new Magic CnC processes, it was going to cost $15-18,000 each for 100 cranks. The machine shop had the correct tooling and grinders and everything needed, but we decided it was just too costly. Now CnC grinders have improved, CAD/CAM and computers have come light years, but a roller crank is still about a week of machine time. The metal and forgings were a little under 6K per crank, but the set up and machine time was excessive. Grinding the splines and cutting the bolts was just too labor intensive. We decided there were too few 547s left to justify 100 units.

I probably still have the blueprints and data folder somewhere if you are interested.

[jacques]

Hi
From what i understand Capricorn made a run of 5 and the cost is about 30K+ Euro if they would have written off the engineering and done a bigger run it would seem to me that the actual cost is 10K euro in a bigger lot. i have issues that for a little bit more they could have used better material but that would have cost maybe 2K more but would have increased the service life immensely. the biggest benefit would be to make replacement parts for the 82mm cranks that still exist but there is not a great population. The approach i would use would be to incorporate the modification that Porsche was considering and make the center section 1 piece and use a cracked outer race.(see page 133 in Heinrick's book)then press/pin the other sections only using the zero angle bevel to secure the flywheel. This would require a different rebuild if ever needed but another replacement one would be preferable.